The Gift of the Kos'mos Cometh & Tarshishim wanted
- Thread starter Xexanoth
- Start date
Gnosticangel
Grimscribe
Seems like several copies of the Gift of the Kosmos are for sale on Ebay, the prices seems to match the going rate elsewhere:
THE GIFT OF THE KOSMOS COMETH! Ex Occidente Press. NEW! OOP. | eBay
THE GIFT OF THE KOSMOS COMETH! Ex Occidente Press. NEW! OOP. | eBay
In A Dark Light
Grimscribe
I would truly love to own a copy of 'The Gift of the Kos'mos Cometh', but there's just no way I could ever justify spending that much money on a single book.
Gnosticangel
Grimscribe
They can be quite expensive, especially at retail prices, but these limited edition Ex Occidente/Mount Abraxas books, like the upper-tier Centipede Press books, are truly masterpieces of the bookbinders' art and are a joy to hold and behold. Many of Des Lewis' Real-Time Reviews have photographs of these works.
Also, these Ex Ocidente books in particular contain exceptional works of fiction that are not available elsewhere (unless reprinted years later by the individual authors). Most Centipede Press books are reprints, or new collections of previously printed material.
There are fine presses whose works go far beyond these prices, such as The Society of Esoteric Endeavour, and Xoanon's and Pegana Press' limited editions. I would love to own some of their works someday but who knows?
Also, these Ex Ocidente books in particular contain exceptional works of fiction that are not available elsewhere (unless reprinted years later by the individual authors). Most Centipede Press books are reprints, or new collections of previously printed material.
There are fine presses whose works go far beyond these prices, such as The Society of Esoteric Endeavour, and Xoanon's and Pegana Press' limited editions. I would love to own some of their works someday but who knows?
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In A Dark Light
Grimscribe
Oh, I've no doubt that the books are worth every penny. I've practically drooled over the pictures of 'Kosmos' on D.F.Lewis review of the book. But still very much a considerable purchase.
Gnosticangel
Grimscribe
In the past, I have chosen fine books over new phones, flatscreen TVs and (to the despair of my wife), a much-needed new suit. She has me under better control nowadays! : )
Nigromontanus
Mystic
If the authors of THE GIFT OF THE KOS'MOS COMETH! will give their approval, I will be delighted to post here, on Thomas Ligotti Online, a Free PDF of the book, including the illustrations for the endpapers, frontispiece page, the dust-jacket and so on.
Please do not inquire for other Free PDFs. I do not have the time nor the stamina to take care of this right now but it is something I had on my mind for a long time. So it is something that will eventually happen. When? This year, hopefully. Mind you, it is not going to happen for all the books I have published, of course.
Also, the authors I have published are free to share with you the PDFs for their books which I have designed myself; if they are fine with that, they have my blessing in distributing / sharing the PDFs as they wish and to whom they wish. If you cannot afford a book I have published or you cannot find it anywhere or for whatever other reasons, contact the authors. They might be able to help you with a digital copy of it. The copyright over the texts belongs to the authors alone. I am fine with the authors sharing the PDFs for the books I have designed / published myself, if they are fine wih it as well.
Please do not inquire for other Free PDFs. I do not have the time nor the stamina to take care of this right now but it is something I had on my mind for a long time. So it is something that will eventually happen. When? This year, hopefully. Mind you, it is not going to happen for all the books I have published, of course.
Also, the authors I have published are free to share with you the PDFs for their books which I have designed myself; if they are fine with that, they have my blessing in distributing / sharing the PDFs as they wish and to whom they wish. If you cannot afford a book I have published or you cannot find it anywhere or for whatever other reasons, contact the authors. They might be able to help you with a digital copy of it. The copyright over the texts belongs to the authors alone. I am fine with the authors sharing the PDFs for the books I have designed / published myself, if they are fine wih it as well.
Ucasuni
Mystic
I think distributing digital versions of high-end books is very problematic. I, for one, am always frustrated when I part with hard-earned cash for limited editions only to have those works re-issued (either by the same publisher or by others). The fact is that I'm willing to pay the sums those books demand because I expect that their value will be preserved by virtue of their rarity. Cheaper versions of these books—either in digital format or re-publication by other publishers—immediately destroys the economic value of the original publication. As it stands, this has happened enough for me to consider myself once bitten and twice shy. If this pattern continues, thrice shy is just around the corner... And thrice shy means that a lot of small presses will find themselves with one more unsold book in their inventory. I no longer buy books from Cemetery Dance, Dark Regions, and Subterranean for precisely this reason.
Robert Adam Gilmour
Grimscribe
How long would you like it to be before a cheaper version comes out? They generally take a couple of years to come out and I think that seems fair. With the really expensive versions I think it might be best to consider most of the cost to cover the book as an object.
Ucasuni
Mystic
I buy books primarily for their contents. And, the price tag is justified by the quality and rarity of those contents. And although I understand the view that their costs is a reflection of their aesthetic quality (which I certainly appreciate), the fact is that the market doesn't support this view. As I said, when these books become cheaply available in other formats, the secondary market value of the original edition plummets.
Masonwire
Chymist
If you buy the books primarily for their contents, then you shouldn't be too much bothered by (cheaper) reprints. I don't mind that I paid quite a bit for the Egaeus version of Mark Samuels's "Written in Darkness" when it came out. It was later re-released by Chomu. So what? I feel that it deserves to be read by more than just a (chosen) few. Much too often limited editions (of books, albums, you name it) fuel the incredibly nasty side of capitalism where some who are quick enough often sooner than later offer the object at excessively inflated prices. So why not give those who were too late (or who were broke at the time of publication) the chance to read the books/listen to the albums? Zagava did a peasant version of Reggie Oliver's "The Hauntings at Tankerton Park" at half the price of the hardcover. Fair enough.
Specficjunkie
Mannikin
Respectfully, I couldn't disagree more. I have bought and sold many books over the years and am glad when books hold value just like the next guy. But the notion that preserving a book's value for the sake of the purchaser is more important than the author's, publisher's, and reading public's interest in its dissemination (when they agree to it's dissemination) just seems flat out wrong to me...
Ucasuni
Mystic
I am not suggesting that publishers (much less authors) are obligated to preserve the value of their customers investments. I AM saying that the business model is not sustainable if there is no expectation that those investments will retain their value.
As to the question of books being resold at excessively inflated prices, I'm afraid that's a matter of personal opinion. They are worth what people are prepared to pay for them. In any case as you said, I'm happy to see great authors and editors get wide audiences in principle. But it'd be nice if their works weren't first sold under any pretense of exclusivity. As I said, in the long run, that's not a sustainable model. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
As to the question of books being resold at excessively inflated prices, I'm afraid that's a matter of personal opinion. They are worth what people are prepared to pay for them. In any case as you said, I'm happy to see great authors and editors get wide audiences in principle. But it'd be nice if their works weren't first sold under any pretense of exclusivity. As I said, in the long run, that's not a sustainable model. You can't have your cake and eat it too.
I understand the sentiment, but it think the reasoning given here, and previously, might not be fully adequate. A physical book is not the same thing as a PDF of its contents. Owning the latter still does not mean owning the former as well. I
I imagine books like the ones Exoccidente publishes are not inexpensive to produce & it's not unreasonable for the price to reflect that. I have never seen Exoccidente or Zagava promote their books on the basis of exclusivity, so who are we to assume that's their business model?
Gnosticangel
Grimscribe
"I am not suggesting that publishers (much less authors) are obligated to preserve the value of their customers investments. I AM saying that the business model is not sustainable if there is no expectation that those investments will retain their value."
"I imagine books like the ones Exoccidente publishes are not inexpensive to produce & it's not unreasonable for the price to reflect that. I have never seen Exoccidente or Zagava promote their books on the basis of exclusivity, so who are we to assume that's their business model?"
I agree with the 2nd statement. My understanding that their intention is focused on creating books of weird and decadent fiction as works of art, rather than as products in a sustainable business model.
Sustainability is an increasingly important concept and practice in today's ever-smaller world, but it doesn't seem that applicable to art, which appears to be a different kind of endeavor.
"I imagine books like the ones Exoccidente publishes are not inexpensive to produce & it's not unreasonable for the price to reflect that. I have never seen Exoccidente or Zagava promote their books on the basis of exclusivity, so who are we to assume that's their business model?"
I agree with the 2nd statement. My understanding that their intention is focused on creating books of weird and decadent fiction as works of art, rather than as products in a sustainable business model.
Sustainability is an increasingly important concept and practice in today's ever-smaller world, but it doesn't seem that applicable to art, which appears to be a different kind of endeavor.
Daninsky
Mannikin
I purchase limited and lettered editions of books I desire to read and treasure for their visual appeal, for their tactile appeal, and for the joy of sharing photos and discussions of them with other people.
I never pretend for a moment to entertain the entitled notion of 'the pretense of exclusivity' unless the publisher explicitly states that this material will never appear again in any format. Except almost none of them actually do that.
So where does this 'pretense of exclusivity' come from? It may exist in the heads of certain buyers, but I have never felt entitled to it when purchasing lettered/limited editions. As another poster stated, if one buys the books primarily for their contents then what could it possibly matter if the secondary market value plummets? You still have a precious, beautiful book in a luxurious format with splendid, readable content. The only position from which you could possibly make such a complaint is if you are a professional used book dealer or if you don't actually buy 'for the contents' but rather with the anticipation of flogging the books on Ebay or ABE for vastly inflated prices to someone who was not timely enough to buy at List.
Look, I am not telling anyone how or why to buy their own books. But this attitude of "how dare a publisher or author try to generate additional revenue by making this book available in an affordable format" is, in my opinion, hostile and toxic to the hobby as a whole. Especially when punctuated with the vague threat of "if they do so, I will never purchase their limited editions again!"
If you purchase books because they are beautiful and because you value their contents, then you needn't ever get your dander up in this way. If you're in this game under the pretense of chasing the dream of massive secondary market profits, that's your choice and your privilege. But as soon as you start extending that design to a public, external attitude of hostility towards authors and publishers because they 'depreciate' your 'investment' by seeking a broader audience, you're stepping into different territory altogether.
I apologize if this has sounded more hostile than I perhaps intended. But this subject really touches a nerve with me. And I am a collector who is now a mere three books shy of having a complete Centipede library, as well as a full collection of Zagava lettered exemplars among quite a few other extensive lines of limited/lettered productions. But I do nothing whatsoever short of -cheer- for both the authors and the small press houses that I collect when I hear that they're releasing a more affordable but less luxurious version of the books I have already paid hundreds or thousands for.
THEIR investment in the hobby and the scene as a whole is far more important to me than the nickels and dimes I might make by flogging multiple copies of their short run books on Ebay.
You're entitled to your own opinions, of course. But I will not hesitate to confess that certain attitudes in this hobby confound me altogether. And the idea of attacking a small press publisher because they made your collection less elite by offering up these wonderful works to a wider audience with more modest financial means is certainly one of those confounding attitudes. Maybe I'm just not understanding something...
I never pretend for a moment to entertain the entitled notion of 'the pretense of exclusivity' unless the publisher explicitly states that this material will never appear again in any format. Except almost none of them actually do that.
So where does this 'pretense of exclusivity' come from? It may exist in the heads of certain buyers, but I have never felt entitled to it when purchasing lettered/limited editions. As another poster stated, if one buys the books primarily for their contents then what could it possibly matter if the secondary market value plummets? You still have a precious, beautiful book in a luxurious format with splendid, readable content. The only position from which you could possibly make such a complaint is if you are a professional used book dealer or if you don't actually buy 'for the contents' but rather with the anticipation of flogging the books on Ebay or ABE for vastly inflated prices to someone who was not timely enough to buy at List.
Look, I am not telling anyone how or why to buy their own books. But this attitude of "how dare a publisher or author try to generate additional revenue by making this book available in an affordable format" is, in my opinion, hostile and toxic to the hobby as a whole. Especially when punctuated with the vague threat of "if they do so, I will never purchase their limited editions again!"
If you purchase books because they are beautiful and because you value their contents, then you needn't ever get your dander up in this way. If you're in this game under the pretense of chasing the dream of massive secondary market profits, that's your choice and your privilege. But as soon as you start extending that design to a public, external attitude of hostility towards authors and publishers because they 'depreciate' your 'investment' by seeking a broader audience, you're stepping into different territory altogether.
I apologize if this has sounded more hostile than I perhaps intended. But this subject really touches a nerve with me. And I am a collector who is now a mere three books shy of having a complete Centipede library, as well as a full collection of Zagava lettered exemplars among quite a few other extensive lines of limited/lettered productions. But I do nothing whatsoever short of -cheer- for both the authors and the small press houses that I collect when I hear that they're releasing a more affordable but less luxurious version of the books I have already paid hundreds or thousands for.
THEIR investment in the hobby and the scene as a whole is far more important to me than the nickels and dimes I might make by flogging multiple copies of their short run books on Ebay.
You're entitled to your own opinions, of course. But I will not hesitate to confess that certain attitudes in this hobby confound me altogether. And the idea of attacking a small press publisher because they made your collection less elite by offering up these wonderful works to a wider audience with more modest financial means is certainly one of those confounding attitudes. Maybe I'm just not understanding something...
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Gnosticangel
Grimscribe
"I purchase limited and lettered editions of books I desire to read and treasure for their visual appeal, for their tactile appeal, and for the joy of sharing photos and discussions of them with other people. I never pretend for a moment to entertain the entitled notion of 'the pretense of exclusivity' unless the publisher explicitly states that this material will never appear again in any format. Except almost none of them actually do that. So where does this 'pretense of exclusivity' come from? "
Noble sentiments - this person understands the true joy of collecting!
"But I will not hesitate to confess that certain attitudes in this hobby confound me altogether. And the idea of attacking a small press publisher because they made your collection less elite by offering up these wonderful works to a wider audience with more modest financial means is certainly one of those confounding attitudes."
I assume that this is from elsewhere as I've not seen anyone on this thread state this, and it seems that more or most posters here lean toward your former opinion. These books are beautiful and amazing because of their physical presence as works of art.
Also in cases of the unique multi-author collections from Ex Occidente, and some single-author collections from both EO and Centipede, they are valuable because the publisher /editor was creatively inspired and then worked for literally years to bring these projects to fruition. For me, this is especially true of the thematic collections from EO, such as "The Master in Cafe Morphine," "Infra Noir," "All Is Full of Hell," or The Gift of the Kos'mos Cometh."
Without having the author contracts in front of us, it's hard to know how exclusionary and proprietary some of these books are. I assume that in most cases, it remains up to the author to use their work elsewhere in whole or part, as Mark Samuels for example appeared to do in "The Man Who Collected Machen."
But if Centipede and Ex Occidente don't have staff or resources to make general reader copies available, it doesn't automatically follow that they are preventing single works from their authors being republished elsewhere. It may be just that their mission is to do what they do, and not side projects.
I remain grateful that we still have these publishers to thank for great works of art and literature. I know that I exprience real grief when one of these small presses goes under or fades from view, as the wonderful Hieroglyhic Press seems to have done.
Apologies for this early-morning rambling. This has been an interesting discussion and probably it would serve TLO to have its own separate thread on small presses in the weird, supernatural and decadent fiction world.
Noble sentiments - this person understands the true joy of collecting!
"But I will not hesitate to confess that certain attitudes in this hobby confound me altogether. And the idea of attacking a small press publisher because they made your collection less elite by offering up these wonderful works to a wider audience with more modest financial means is certainly one of those confounding attitudes."
I assume that this is from elsewhere as I've not seen anyone on this thread state this, and it seems that more or most posters here lean toward your former opinion. These books are beautiful and amazing because of their physical presence as works of art.
Also in cases of the unique multi-author collections from Ex Occidente, and some single-author collections from both EO and Centipede, they are valuable because the publisher /editor was creatively inspired and then worked for literally years to bring these projects to fruition. For me, this is especially true of the thematic collections from EO, such as "The Master in Cafe Morphine," "Infra Noir," "All Is Full of Hell," or The Gift of the Kos'mos Cometh."
Without having the author contracts in front of us, it's hard to know how exclusionary and proprietary some of these books are. I assume that in most cases, it remains up to the author to use their work elsewhere in whole or part, as Mark Samuels for example appeared to do in "The Man Who Collected Machen."
But if Centipede and Ex Occidente don't have staff or resources to make general reader copies available, it doesn't automatically follow that they are preventing single works from their authors being republished elsewhere. It may be just that their mission is to do what they do, and not side projects.
I remain grateful that we still have these publishers to thank for great works of art and literature. I know that I exprience real grief when one of these small presses goes under or fades from view, as the wonderful Hieroglyhic Press seems to have done.
Apologies for this early-morning rambling. This has been an interesting discussion and probably it would serve TLO to have its own separate thread on small presses in the weird, supernatural and decadent fiction world.
Daninsky
Mannikin
Everyone collects for their own reasons, I suppose. I just happen to feel that collecting for the pure pleasure of well-made books is the best reason there is!
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Xexanoth
Mannikin
got a copy of Tarshishim from a very nice member!
Very interesting to read your thoughts about these books.
I also saw the listing on ebay, I hope to get it at a slightly more affordable price.
Maybe I'll also buy the ebay copy, if no one else does. Been watching this auction for quite some time! It's listed there for maybe half a year?
Very interesting to read your thoughts about these books.
I also saw the listing on ebay, I hope to get it at a slightly more affordable price.
Maybe I'll also buy the ebay copy, if no one else does. Been watching this auction for quite some time! It's listed there for maybe half a year?