Graves - A Distressing Novel

[Patrick G.P]

Violence, suicide and eliminative materialism are a large part of the narrative in the novel, an outlook, a consequence of Damien’s actions and thoughts. The very real-life issues of an online debate, featuring very real people that feed on misogyny is something quite different in this context in my opinion. The whole point of the chapter may very well be Damien’s admiration for Eminem's adversariness and Nihilism, and those thoughts and ideas fit very well into Damien’s world view, but my whole point is that for me it reads outdated and rather as a spiel against feminism and making light of a type of situation that we know is not tolerable, when we know recent years struggle against this type of behavior.

I do see your point about the students in the party scene and agree with your take on it to a certain degree, as I mentioned in my review, the biggest strength of the novel for me was also the weakest points; the philosophical aspects and thought monologues of the main character. The Dostoyevskian nature of Damien is dead on I think, but it was difficult for me to discern if we are supposed to sympathize with Damien and his outlook, as I felt that some of his motivations, his reasoning gets obscured by the heavy philosophizing.

 

[Evans]

Violence, suicide and eliminative materialism are a large part of the narrative in the novel, an outlook, a consequence of Damien’s actions and thoughts. The very real-life issues of an online debate, featuring very real people that feed on misogyny is something quite different in this context in my opinion. The whole point of the chapter may very well be Damien’s admiration for Eminem's adversariness and Nihilism, and those thoughts and ideas fit very well into Damien’s world view, but my whole point is that for me it reads outdated and rather as a spiel against feminism and making light of a type of situation that we know is not tolerable, when we know recent years struggle against this type of behavior.

I don't recall exactly when the novel was written but I assumed that example was used precisely because those issueses e.g. #MeToo, were in the news at the time. An analogues situation might have been attacking the edgy 'there's nothing special or spooky about life' types for supporting Black Lives Matter i.e. because that kind of moral critique is incompatible with their account of humanity. I agree it has a very late 2010s feel and wouldn't be so effective if people weren't aware of the context.

I do see your point about the students in the party scene and agree with your take on it to a certain degree, as I mentioned in my review, the biggest strength of the novel for me was also the weakest points; the philosophical aspects and thought monologues of the main character. The Dostoyevskian nature of Damien is dead on I think, but it was difficult for me to discern if we are supposed to sympathize with Damien and his outlook, as I felt that some of his motivations, his reasoning gets obscured by the heavy philosophizing.

I'd assume we are supposed to sympathise with the position he approaches at the end though not the way in which he got there (after all the position he finds himself after the cosmic experince and at the close is one where he has reached the beginings of some accord with life and can say what he did was wrong/affirm the value in other lives by helping the suicidal patient).

 

[Patrick G.P]

When I say that the rant feels outdated its more in a social context than the period of which it was written, as the subject matter should perhaps be treated differently in the last couple of years. But the historical context is present as well as it would neither be effective or ineffective as a rant without the historical events and consequences. Also when there is such a shift in the narrative to such definitive arguments, it's easy to think that it's someone other than the protagonist that vents his thoughts through the novel.

Your take on the end of the book and Damien’s journey is interesting, and there is indeed some form of sympathy being underlined during its conclusion, though I felt the ending to be sardonic and almost darkly comedic in its treatment of his confession, which I really liked. Several aspects of the book are quite disquieting, and it can be hard to read novels when you feel that the main character is unlikable, and it is hard to rationalize his actions and thoughts.

 

[Evans]

Your take on the end of the book and Damien’s journey is interesting, and there is indeed some form of sympathy being underlined during its conclusion, though I felt the ending to be sardonic and almost darkly comedic in its treatment of his confession, which I really liked. Several aspects of the book are quite disquieting, and it can be hard to read novels when you feel that the main character is unlikable, and it is hard to rationalize his actions and thoughts.

I took Damien to be a character like Frank from MYWNYD (a spree killer). One might sympathise with some of their motivations and their outsider perspective might let them see truths society conceals but their actions and character are ultimately horrific when looked at from outside of their own world view (the difference being Damien gets a cosmic epiphany of the wrongness of his actions whilst Frank understands his retributive actions as ultimately meaningless because of the true nature of reality as blind Schopenhaurian striving).

Graves is one of my favorite of Crisps works alongside Remember You're A One Ball, which contains an even darker portrait of humanity. My main criticism is that Sadie doesn't come across that interesting as a character; she is neither intelligent nor beguiling enough to explain Damien's fascination with her - her being unsympathetic is fine but she doesn't present a strong enough counter-point for my tastes.