Religious horror writers?

[ghostfactory]

Hi, everyone. I'm working on an essay about Mark Samuels and would like to briefly outline the history of religious weird fiction/horror writers--especially those who were a direct influence on Samuels.

Machen seems like an obvious place to start. Any tips on where to go from there?

I know I could dig around on the internet and find this out for myself, but I also appreciate that there are many Samuels experts on this board. I'd be grateful for your help.

 

[Robert Adam Gilmour]

Daniel Mills is a current one. One of the Benson brothers. Russell Kirk. All catholics?

Pugmire is Mormon.

I think Clive Barker is Christian but there's probably hundreds of writers who are but it doesn't really come to the fore.

 

[Mr. Veech]

Daniel Mills is a current one. One of the Benson brothers. Russell Kirk. All catholics?

Pugmire is Mormon.

I think Clive Barker is Christian but there's probably hundreds of writers who are but it doesn't really come to the fore.

It's also possible some are unwilling to disclose their beliefs for fear of being ridiculed. The more I think about it, the more I can't help but feel that horror and religion are wonderful companions. So much of horror is built on the very notion of man's limitations, or the necessity of avoiding certain transgressions. Gothic horror, in my opinion, is very much Christian in the aforementioned sense.

 

[Sad Marsh Ghost]

Many of the great gothic horror writers from older eras either haven't been particularly religious for their time period (Poe) or have labelled themselves religious despite being plagued with religious doubt (Le Fanu), so I think it's a mistake to consider it a Christian genre. Even Machen's 'Christianity' was really more mystical and about the truths behind religion more than it was religion.

Of the current writers, Mark Samuels is a Christian, but his more orthodox Catholic religious views are hard to compare to Machen's more mystical mindset. Reggie Oliver has labelled himself a 'liberal Christian'. Clive Barker has repudiated the label of Christian, but has prominently used Christian themes in his art.

I think spiritual doubt (either the materialist fear of the hidden spiritual or the spiritualist's fear of a purely materialistic cosmos) is more vital to the gothic genre than firm religious conviction, which is less frightening. I don't really understand how anybody who is convinced good will ultimately forever triumph could be that anxious about the universe or their place in it.

 

[qcrisp]

Daniel Mills is a current one. One of the Benson brothers. Russell Kirk. All catholics?

Pugmire is Mormon.

I think Clive Barker is Christian but there's probably hundreds of writers who are but it doesn't really come to the fore.

It's also possible some are unwilling to disclose their beliefs for fear of being ridiculed. The more I think about it, the more I can't help but feel that horror and religion are wonderful companions. So much of horror is built on the very notion of man's limitations, or the necessity of avoiding certain transgressions.

The third chapter of William James's 'Is Life Worth Living?' deals with similar ideas:


https://www.jstor.org/stable/2375619?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

 

[qcrisp]

Many of the great gothic horror writers from older eras either haven't been particularly religious for their time period (Poe) or have labelled themselves religious despite being plagued with religious doubt (Le Fanu), so I think it's a mistake to consider it a Christian genre. Even Machen's 'Christianity' was really more mystical and about the truths behind religion more than it was religion.

Of the current writers, Mark Samuels is a Christian, but his more orthodox Catholic religious views are hard to compare to Machen's more mystical mindset. Reggie Oliver has labelled himself a 'liberal Christian'. Clive Barker has repudiated the label of Christian, but has prominently used Christian themes in his art.

I think spiritual doubt (either the materialist fear of the hidden spiritual or the spiritualist's fear of a purely materialistic cosmos) is more vital to the gothic genre than firm religious conviction, which is less frightening. I don't really understand how anybody who is convinced good will ultimately forever triumph could be that anxious about the universe or their place in it.

The prospect of the ultimate triumph of good is a terrifying one for those who suspect they are, themselves, evil.

 

[ghostfactory]

Hi, James. The essay is about identifying themes of sacrifice, anxiety, and despair in Samuels's work. So at least touching on Gothic literature seems like a must, right? At least in contrast to Machen.

I've read a decent amount of Machen, and am doing my best to contextualize his beliefs within the essay. He is clearly an influence on Samuels, who I see as part of a continuum of Machen's work. Who are some of the writers who can better connect Machen to Samuels?

That being said, I'll look deeper into Le Fanu. Thanks!

 

[ghostfactory]

Daniel Mills is a current one. One of the Benson brothers. Russell Kirk. All catholics?

Pugmire is Mormon.

I think Clive Barker is Christian but there's probably hundreds of writers who are but it doesn't really come to the fore.

It's also possible some are unwilling to disclose their beliefs for fear of being ridiculed. The more I think about it, the more I can't help but feel that horror and religion are wonderful companions. So much of horror is built on the very notion of man's limitations, or the necessity of avoiding certain transgressions.

The third chapter of William James's 'Is Life Worth Living?' deals with similar ideas:


https://www.jstor.org/stable/2375619?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

The James essay appears to be relevant. Many, many thanks for this.

 

[Sad Marsh Ghost]

The prospect of the ultimate triumph of good is a terrifying one for those who suspect they are, themselves, evil.

In my experience evil people tend not to know they're evil. If somebody has the skills of self-criticism to acknowledge some of their deeds as evil then they're probably not.

I think religious certainty is overall one of the least anxious worldviews. Even if evil people are punished horrifically then they deserve to be punished horrifically within that odd ideological framework, so things still work out very tidily.

 

[qcrisp]

I think the best response I can make at present is to quote Solzhenitsyn:

If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

 

[Sad Marsh Ghost]

I think most people are a mix of good and evil, but that there are still evil people out there whose entire personality solely consists of negative, invidious traits and whose every interaction with society comes from a dark, harmful place that is of evil rather than one of desperation. I would have no hesitation calling Donald Trump evil, which is why I'm not really bothered if anything bad happens to him. Most people are, fortunately, not so extreme in their level of good or evil, which are subjective traits our culture has arrived at.

A. M. Burrage was a Catholic.

 

[Ibrahim]

Hi, everyone. I'm working on an essay about Mark Samuels and would like to briefly outline the history of religious weird fiction/horror writers--especially those who were a direct influence on Samuels.

Machen seems like an obvious place to start. Any tips on where to go from there?

I know I could dig around on the internet and find this out for myself, but I also appreciate that there are many Samuels experts on this board. I'd be grateful for your help.

Machen/Samuels: both writers, both Christians. Does that make their work Christian?
Never a good idea to circumscribe the field of an author's total endeavour by their biography, i think.

 

[Ibrahim]

Even Machen's 'Christianity' was really more mystical and about the truths behind religion more than it was religion.

Religion is by definition about the truths behind religion, is by definition mystical. Taking out the mysticism leaves you with mere politics.

 

[ghostfactory]

Hi, everyone. I'm working on an essay about Mark Samuels and would like to briefly outline the history of religious weird fiction/horror writers--especially those who were a direct influence on Samuels.

Machen seems like an obvious place to start. Any tips on where to go from there?

I know I could dig around on the internet and find this out for myself, but I also appreciate that there are many Samuels experts on this board. I'd be grateful for your help.

Machen/Samuels: both writers, both Christians. Does that make their work Christian?
Never a good idea to circumscribe the field of an author's total endeavour by their biography, i think.

With all due respect, that is not what I intend to say with this essay. I'm not sure why you would assume that. I'm merely asking a question of tradition and influence.

 

[Sad Marsh Ghost]

Religion is by definition about the truths behind religion, is by definition mystical.

I don't think this applies to most Christians, who focus on the surface material of dogma to the point the spiritual or moral truths become almost hilariously ignored, but I don't want to derail the thread. All I meant to say is that I respect Machen's use of Christianity more than I do that of any Christian I have ever actually met.

 

[Ibrahim]

Hi, everyone. I'm working on an essay about Mark Samuels and would like to briefly outline the history of religious weird fiction/horror writers--especially those who were a direct influence on Samuels.

Machen seems like an obvious place to start. Any tips on where to go from there?

I know I could dig around on the internet and find this out for myself, but I also appreciate that there are many Samuels experts on this board. I'd be grateful for your help.

Machen/Samuels: both writers, both Christians. Does that make their work Christian?
Never a good idea to circumscribe the field of an author's total endeavour by their biography, i think.

With all due respect, that is not what I intend to say with this essay. I'm not sure why you would assume that. I'm merely asking a question of tradition and influence.

With the respect fully reciprocated, i am not assuming anything; you have stated wanting to write about religious weird fiction writers. ‘Religious’ in this instance could refer to both the fiction and the author; for clarity, it seems the essay would need to make that distinction or explain why that distinction needn’t be made.

 

[ghostfactory]

Hi, everyone. I'm working on an essay about Mark Samuels and would like to briefly outline the history of religious weird fiction/horror writers--especially those who were a direct influence on Samuels.

Machen seems like an obvious place to start. Any tips on where to go from there?

I know I could dig around on the internet and find this out for myself, but I also appreciate that there are many Samuels experts on this board. I'd be grateful for your help.

Machen/Samuels: both writers, both Christians. Does that make their work Christian?
Never a good idea to circumscribe the field of an author's total endeavour by their biography, i think.

With all due respect, that is not what I intend to say with this essay. I'm not sure why you would assume that. I'm merely asking a question of tradition and influence.

With the respect fully reciprocated, i am not assuming anything; you have stated wanting to write about religious weird fiction writers. ‘Religious’ in this instance could refer to both the fiction and the author; for clarity, it seems the essay would need to make that distinction or explain why that distinction needn’t be made.

Yes, that is a very good point and one that will be made. Thank you.

 

[Ibrahim]

Religion is by definition about the truths behind religion, is by definition mystical.

I don't think this applies to most Christians, who focus on the surface material of dogma to the point the spiritual or moral truths become almost hilariously ignored, but I don't want to derail the thread. All I meant to say is that I respect Machen's use of Christianity more than I do that of any Christian I have ever actually met.

Let me derail the thread for you. ( Actually i consider it on topic.)

Just because millions of Christians say it’s so, doesn’t make it so.
If millions of Christians ignore the basic spiritual truths of their creed, does this change the spiritual truths?

A crime does not anull the law, does it? If i don’t drink your lemonade, that doesn’t make the lemonade disappear, no?

 

[Sad Marsh Ghost]

Christianity is so weird in how it has reused premises and archetypes from older mythologies that it's hard to see a single universal deeper truth to even deny as the construction is by its nature rather arbitrary and self-contradictory. I find Blake and Machen's more mystical and artistic interpretation of Christianity more interesting than the reality of most Christians, old or new. I have no interest in most orthodox religion, which is as stifling or more stifling than the worst of materialism in how it clogs the brain with the surface details at the expense of meaning. Mainline Anglicanism or Catholicism are the dogma of modernity in many ways. The words of a capitalist elite system of monarchy or church have little to say to me. Just more fog to justify the social positions of the powerful. I'll take Machen and Blackwood instead.

 

[ToALonelyPeace]

I think the best response I can make at present is to quote Solzhenitsyn:

If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?

Your quote reminds me of this poem:

In the Desert
by Stephen Crane

In the desert
I saw a creature, naked, bestial,
Who, squatting upon the ground,
Held his heart in his hands,
And ate of it.
I said, “Is it good, friend?”
“It is bitter—bitter,” he answered;

“But I like it
“Because it is bitter,
“And because it is my heart.”