Your favourite song at the moment..

Ironrose, I am interested in varied music, and realize that great things can come from different styles. I listen to several musical categories, from Classical to 1920s swing jazz, 50s rock, (black) metal, avant-garde (THE RESIDENTS), local folk music, and more. Cold and warm. But not necessarily all styles appeal to me.

I listened to Schulz's Moondawn, and liked it better than Timewind - on first listens. Especially the second side. Seemed more structured. It also seems to dawn on me that this soundscape (not sure if it should be called "music" in conventional term) strives for something other than melody, rythm, and groove - more ritualistic perhaps, reaching for a trance-like mental state. But it may be that it takes time to discover all its layered qualities.

My guess, judging from some reviewer on Progarchives (ZowieZiggy: his one-sidedness made me rather upset), is that the completely oppositional conflict of preference in handing out star ratings between Brian Eno and Klaus Schulze, is purely one of subjective taste and social background identity: I would believe a cultural divide between intellectual avant-garde and metalheads. I think metalheads in general are more drawn to the progressive/ambient style of Schulze than to that of Eno/ROXY MUSIC. And rating by stars and numbers becomes very misleading, when you compare "apples and pears". That is also why the star rating on Rateyourmusic is pretty useless, if comparing different artists by it. I think measurement and numbered grading of art in general is a form of mental decadence.

I find the anarchistic "go-to-hell" energy in some of Eno's songs very refreshing (especially on Here Come the Warm Jets from 1973); not the jab at Brian Ferry though ("The Paw Paw Negro Blowtorch") which felt a little bitter. Another Green World (1975) and Before and After Science (1977) are also good, and paved the way for bands like DEVO. And he is clearly wildly artistically talented. Though not for grandiose hit songs, like the big stars. Perhaps, after all, both he and his brother felt most at home in ambient music.

I will next continue to explore Brian Eno (Airports, Apollo, Pearl). Roger Eno's Between Tides is also supposed to be good. And I will listen to more of Klaus Schulze, and TANGERINE DREAM. Another interesting record is the filmscore for DUNE, with music by TOTO and one song by Brian Eno/Roger Eno/Daniel Lanois.
 
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Knygathin:

This is going to be too long, but I always have too much to say. I have always been one who was unsatisfied with mainstream music. I could never understand why so many people were so satisfied with what so easily came their way and stopped there. I've always been hungry, I want more, and I've always looked for it. And I've found some things along the way. So this may not be what you really want.

To me, Ambient music has always meant something along the lines of what Brian Eno said: "must be as ignorable as it is interesting". I want more from music, but somehow I've still ended up with a lot of Ambient because even some of my favorite artists dabble in it.

But going by what you've said about Timewind vs Moondawn, I'm thinking you'll want music that's more constructed but still atmospheric. So here goes.

Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze were pioneers of Cosmic Music, both in Berlin. Their 70s output is my favorite, since it uses analog synthesizers, and I gave up after they went digital. But there are others:

Tangerine Dream
Klaus Schulze
Adelbert von Deyen
Zanov
JB Banfi (Italy)

And some other Germans that did more along the lines of Space Rock:

Ashra Tempel (side 2 of their first two albums S/T and Schwingungen)
Agitation Free
Cosmic Jokers
Yatha Sidra
Sergius Golowin
Amon Duul II (sides 3 and 4 of Yeti and Tanz der Lemminge)

Some Japanese artists did experimental music that could be ambient and transcendant:

Takehisa Kosugi (Catch Wave)
Yoshi Wada
Stomu Yamash'ta
Taj Mahal Travellers
East Bionic Symphonia

And then there were the more droney synthesizer albums:

Cluster
Popol Vuh (Affenstunde and In den Garten des Pharaos)
Klaus Schulze (Cyborg)
Tangerine Dream (Zeit)

What TD and Klaus Schulze did is now called Berlin School, and went on to include:

Neuronium (from Spain)
Night Crawlers, Xisle, Chuck van Zyl, all from the Philly scene. Chuck is still going.
Yoshitaka Azumi (Japan how funny - it censors his name because it contains sh and it)
Far East Family Band (Parallel World, produced by Klaus Schulze - Japan)
Breidablik (Norway)

In the 80s, Klaus Schulze went digital, but had a side project called Richard Wahnfried, which was more a mix of electronic and real instruments. There are others that were like this, and this really grabs me, and might be more in the realm of Mike Oldfield:

Richard Wahnfried (Miditation)
Robert Schroder
Roland Hollanger
Vangelis

Out of this scene grew New Age music, which I've mostly found to be wimpy. But there is some good stuff there, and much New Age Adjacent, starting with Popol Vuh, which might be proto New Age:

Popol Vuh
Tomita
Kitaro
Steve Roach
Harold Budd
JD Emmanuel
Franco Falsini
Richard Stearns
Marc Barreca
Michael Brook
Akira Ito
Ariel Kalma

And there is the more Industrial, and maybe Avant Garde but still in this vein:

Igor Wakhevitch
Peter Frohmader

And Avant Garde, but sometimes soundtracky:

Henry Cow
Univers Zero
Tuxedomoon
Lard Free

Projekt Records founder Sam Rosenthal has a band called Black Tape For a Blue Girl which is almost Neo Classical, though with a Darkwave flavor. I might group them with others:

Black Tape For a Blue Girl (This Lush Garden Within, Remnants of a Deeper Purity)
Amber Asylum (Bitte River, Still Point, but really all of them are good)
Dead Can Dance (of course...before they went World Beat in the 90s)
Revolutionary Army of the Infant Jesus (first two or three)
Cocteau Twins (of course...)
This Mortal Coil (of course...)
Camerata Mediolanense

Industrial bands have their own ambient, though I don't count the American/Canadian "Industrial":

Nurse With Wound (Soliloquy For Lilith, Space Music, Opium Music)
Current 93 (Haunted Waves Moving Graves, Drank Honeysuckle Aeons, The Moons at Your Door, The Stars on Their Horsies...)
Ain Soph (Italy, some of their early stuff is very ambient, and ritualistic)
In the Nursery (many soundtracks that I've yet to fully explore from 90s?)

I'd always avoided late Klaus Schulze, but he kept going, releasing a monstrous amount of music. His 3CD set with Lisa Gerrard (from Dead Can Dance) is really good. There are others.

Klaus Schulze with Lisa Gerrard (Vielen Dank)
Klaus Schulze (Rhodes Violin, 55 minute track)
Klaus Schulze (Rhodes Elegy)
there is more...

Okay, this is enough. I'm probably forgetting some things, but there's probably more than you want for now. Enjoy!

PS. If you haven't heard Coil, you might be in for a treat. Stylistically, they went through different phases, but some was very ambient, and some just otherworldly. They were into magick and occult, so their music is ritualistic, and can be described as a portal:

Coil (Astral Disaster, Time Machines, Musick to Play in the Dark 1 and 2, Queens of the Circulating Library, Moons Milk w/bonus disk

PPS. Some of these bands can be accessed through Bandcamp.

PPPS. A newer dark ambient label that is too much the same for me but might be of interest is Slithering Black Records on Bandcamp. The one I own is Kathodos. All their covers are great.
 
H o S

I first encountered Steve Roach on Hearts Of Space, which aired on NPR.
They are online now, but you can have it running in the background.
More quiet and reflective.
That said, my appetite for noise - anger - rage in music has diminished over the years.
Hearts of Space
 
Hergest Ridge (1974) and Ommadawn (1975) are wonderful records by Mike Oldfield. I don't know how this music is exactly categorized, and I don't care much - I just like it. It is mellow, and close to Nature. Incantations (1978) is also quite nice.

Mike Oldfield would later become more commercial: but he was also pushed into this by money hungering Richard Branson at Virgin records. Many artists loose some of their genuinity later in the career, by focusing too much on success, and because of social pressure expectations. It is an evil wheel few are able to avoid completely. That is why anonymity is a good thing; THE RESIDENTS and Hardy Fox have held on to anonymity all through their career, to keep the artistic consciousness clear.

But you can't keep a great talent down. I wouldn't exactly call Mike Oldfield mainstream music. Just because he has become famous and popular, doesn't mean he is uninteresting to listen to. The same could be said for all the great Masters: Homer, Plato, Shakespeare, Beethoven, Bach, Rembrandt, Van Gogh, Poe, Kubrick, Bergman, ... . But I agree that there are numerous other curiosities that go by unnoticed, except by connoisseurs - great talents - because their expression is more particular and idiosyncratic.

To be honest, I am not interested enough in music to go exploring everything, and the deep hidden secrets. I don't take the time for it. I just want it out of the way and done with, so I can sit back and relax. I try to find great stuff, but then loose interest, and drift back to my books.

I also like some of Mike Oldfield's later, more "commercial" records, partly because I grew up with them; it is nostalgia. Even if they sound more mainstream, his talent and unique musical virtuosity shine through. He has a mystical quality. I still enjoy listening occasionally to Platinum (1979), Five Miles Out (1982), Discovery (1984), and The Songs of Distant Earth (1996) based on Arthur C. Clarke's novel.
 
I absolutely agree that artists tend to be more interesting earlier in their careers, since they often lose the intensity of their artistic vision. I have cut Oldfield off after Ommadawn, and like it more than Tubular Bells. I generally cut off all artists at some point. My friends who are also record collectors agree. My friends who are not think I'm nuts. I, however, know I have a method.

Mike Oldfield: I do have Hergest Ridge and Ommadawn and, of course, Tubular Bells. I have also sampled another (Incantations?) and decided not to go that far. Part of my criticisms of Oldfield were pushing back against what you said about Timewind, but I was also kidding on the square.

There are a few artists out there who have had mainstream success who are or were or should have been outsiders (Tom Waits? Eno?) who have been embraced by straight people, people who aren't generally interested in anything so idiosyncratic, but collectively celebrate these artists to the detriment of others just as weird. That is likely the frustration you encountered re: Eno on Prog Archives.

I can relate. This attitude is not popular. This is the story of my life. I may have no friends, but at least I still have my record collection.

PS. I tried to group all that music by description so you could target what might be good. Maybe there's something on there...

PPS. The Residents are the ultimate in High Weirdness. I cut them off after Tunes of Two Cities, though their peak was Not Available. I admire them, but they do get too polished... (!)
 
Ironrose said:
There are a few artists out there who have had mainstream success who are or were or should have been outsiders (Tom Waits? Eno?) who have been embraced by straight people, people who aren't generally interested in anything so idiosyncratic, but collectively celebrate these artists to the detriment of others just as weird. That is likely the frustration you encountered re: Eno on Prog Archives.

I can relate. This attitude is not popular. This is the story of my life. I may have no friends, but at least I still have my record collection.

PS. I tried to group all that music by description so you could target what might be good. Maybe there's something on there...

PPS. The Residents are the ultimate in High Weirdness. I cut them off after Tunes of Two Cities, though their peak was Not Available. I admire them, but they do get too polished... (!)
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Thanks for the list. I am sure there is some interesting stuff on it.

About the "outsider" Tom Waits. He got mass media coverage, was in films. I don't know if it can be called luck. Some people simply have it in them to become successful and famous. I have not listened to his music, but I am sure he must be talented. He almost looks to me like a bohemian jazz version of James Hetfield from Metallica.
People are a herd, sensitive to social pressure, and want to belong. They come out in a long line of groups from the movie theater, stop and look at each other, and say, "Did you see him Waits? Haha! ... Yeah!! ... He is cool, isn't he? ... Yeah, he is cool! ... Ok, I'll go and buy his record then! Ok? ... Ok, me too! ... Great!! ... Let's go grab a beer, and talk, and let our new discovery sink in." Something like that. And the bars near the theater will be full of small groups having identical conversation.

THE RESIDENTS will always have only a limited audience, because only a small number of individuals are willing to subject themselves to such weird sound. People don't want worms crawling in their ears.
 
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Re: H o S

Zaharoff said:
I first encountered Steve Roach on Hearts Of Space, which aired on NPR.
They are online now, but you can have it running in the background.
More quiet and reflective.
That said, my appetite for noise - anger - rage in music has diminished over the years.
Hearts of Space
Click to expand...


You have made my day! Thank you. I used to listen to Hearts of Space when I was in middle and high school, through a local radio station that played it on late night programming. I had completely lost touch of them when they discontinued it and this is the first time since that I have come across it.
 
Ironrose said:
The Residents are the ultimate in High Weirdness. I cut them off after Tunes of Two Cities, though their peak was Not Available. I admire them, but they do get too polished... (!)
Click to expand...

I don't think I have heard that objection before, that THE RESIDENTS would be too "polished", and I am not sure what you mean by that. They did have a very clear artistic vision, and their songs are carefully crafted works of art, with lots of fine details, but to me that is only positive and enjoyable, and fully express their genius. It was actually Hardy Fox who was their main songwriter, and he also had a brief but interesting minimalistic solo career from his home before he sadly died of a brain-tumor in 2018.

Not Available sounds to me almost like normally measured tones. It is very good. But my favorites from the early period are probably Duck Stab (their most famous) and Mark of the Mole. Their collaborations with SNAKEFINGER are also enriching.
 
I listened to TANGERINE DREAMS's Phaedra. Delicious!!! Wonderful record, especially the first side, with some oddly measured tones. Really interesting. I will listen more!
 
Knygathin said:
Ironrose said:
The Residents are the ultimate in High Weirdness. I cut them off after Tunes of Two Cities, though their peak was Not Available. I admire them, but they do get too polished... (!)
Click to expand...

I don't think I have heard that objection before, that THE RESIDENTS would be too "polished", and I am not sure what you mean by that. They did have a very clear artistic vision, and their songs are carefully crafted works of art, with lots of fine details, but to me that is only positive and enjoyable, and fully express their genius. It was actually Hardy Fox who was their main songwriter, and he also had a brief but interesting minimalistic solo career from his home before he sadly died of a brain-tumor in 2018.

Not Available sounds to me almost like normally measured tones. It is very good. But my favorites from the early period are probably Duck Stab (their most famous) and Mark of the Mole. Their collaborations with SNAKEFINGER are also enriching.
Click to expand...

I mean that about the residents, but I'm only speaking for myself, of course. I'm partial to early works in general, and what I mean is that at some point people tend to lose that initial spark that made their work unique, and after a while, they start sounding like themselves, that is, more predictable. (And when you appear on David Letterman, I'm done! And yes, they were still weird...) It's mostly just me, though, and I can't understand how normal people tend to stick with an artist they love so long. I guess I like my diamonds in the rough. But if it weren't for that, I'd never have done so much searching for new music.

Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze:
Glad you liked both those. I agree on your assessments. Mirage is really good, but I thought it might be too simple for you. If I remember correctly, on side one order emerges out of chaos, and on side two order descends into chaos.

PS. I got my copy of Roger Eno's Voices a couple days ago. Strangely, it came with a menu of a restaurant in San Francisco tucked inside!

PPS. Somehow, I've never checked out the Residents with Snakefinger. Also, I do like Duck Stab, but I tend to prefer longer compositions over short songs.
 
Ironrose said:
I mean that about the residents, but I'm only speaking for myself, of course. I'm partial to early works in general, and what I mean is that at some point people tend to lose that initial spark that made their work unique, and after a while, they start sounding like themselves, that is, more predictable. ...
Click to expand...

Ok, now I understand. Yes, I agree that they lost some of the original spark in the mid 1980s and 90s, with a few impressively produced works inbetween that benefited from their increased experience; but still not as artistically primordial as their early work. The transition from analog sounds effects to digital perhaps also made the job too easy for them, not giving it the same audial weight. And they started focusing on touring performances, scene settings and choreography, and when the record LP/CD market collapsed with the Internet they did even more of that, and also explored other paths.

THE RESIDENTS helped produce and co-create on SNAKEFINGER's early records. And he was sometimes their guest-musician; his incredible guitar-playing and singing can be heard on Fingerprince, Duck Stab, Diskomo, and others. He also toured with them, until his premature death in 1987.
 
It used to be real easy to download youtube music videos free online, but that seems all gone. Lots of websites now pretend to offer this service, but when you visit them, they waylay you to other pages and try to force offers on you. It used to be easy to download youtube music videos, ... not anymore, times are changing. I suppose this is what usually happens when too many people discover something good: it becomes all corrupted, and tricksters take advantage of the situation.

Does anyone know of a free youtube download page that still works online, without forcing you aside to download all kinds of suspect software?

Another "amusing" thing is that Adblock nowadays pretends to block lots of ads, but don't. Either Adblock have become so big that they now too are corrupted, or else the Global Internet is changing, falling more and more into the hands of a totalitarian capitalist dominator ever more sly at enslaving us.
 
OK, so this morning I decided, that I have to download a software program that will re-enable me to download youtube videos again. So I visited a webpage that recommends the best download programs for this, and chose the easiest one to use, top rated. I went through the lengthy process of finding it and downloading it, but after, when I was going to open it, it tells me that it can't be opened, that I need another software program to run it. So I search for this program, and download it, and when done, it says it can't be opened. Without further instructions. One and a half hour wasted, as usual. Story of my life on the Internet. Sometimes it works by luck, when stumbling onto something by my own intuition. But using online official instructions by experts, who are supposed to know this better than anyone else, always fails.
 
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