For the misanthropes...
 

For those of you out there who despise the collective human race, what has led you to this mindset? This may have been answered in another thread, and if so, I apologize. But I was thinking about it earlier today on my drive home from uni...for me I guess my anger towards the human race stems from the fact that we have the capacity to be such amazing creatures and do amazing things, but instead we squander it and take a proverbial (and sometimes literal) piss on everybody by cheating stealing and all that other nonsense. I'm angry because we've wasted our potential. Not all of us. But enough for me to be angry towards the human race.

I'm a polite, decent human being. I don't ask much of people. I just wish for them to also be decent human beings, and it's astounding how many are void of the faculties of logic.

I don't know...maybe I'm just an elitist asshole. That's probably almost a definite haha.

But a small part of me holds hope for the human race...a small part of me thinks we can still turn things around and make our lives better for everybody. I don't know.

so what do you guys think? I'm probably just going through that mid-collegiate snobbish/"existential" crisis.

Re: For the misanthropes...
 

unknown, I have no Big Answer to the Question. But I know with certainty that driving a vehicle tends to bring out the worst qualities in people. Perhaps the big and fast exoskeleton affords a sudden sense of invulnerability as compensation for our limitations. I write this shortly before my longish commute to work. I will undoubtedly spout profanity and flip someone off before I get there. Have a nice day. ;)

Re: For the misanthropes...
 

I feel myself to be both a misanthrope and a philanthrope. Philanthrope in the sense I'm furthering fiction written by Misanthropes.
My first relationship with the word 'Misanthrope' was by means of studying Moliere's play of that name in 1966 for A Level French.
I think that by making people dwell on darkness one is being kind. Darkness needs to be acclimatised to, thus to ensure that the ultimate darkness does not come too much as a shock. In fact, being thus kind is revivifying.

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I remember reading a quote about misanthropy being "an all too powerful love of mankind in terms of expectation" This may reflect the feelings you describe, unknown. I no longer harbor much hope for humanity, and it may be just as well. We are miserable caretakers of the Earth. While I do generally like people, the ones that make all the big decisions are usually egotistical, selfish, petty and sadistic. The relentless drive of these people always seem to eventually overwhelm the "live and let live" type. And if you add to that the irrational superstition that still plagues mankind, I think it spells disaster.

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Strangely enough, DF, I just read this article which may interest you:


http://www.slate.com/id/2166211/pagenum/all/

Bendk, that definition you provided seemed to hit the proverbial nail on the head. And you're right. We have not become the caretakers of the earth we should be, our people in power are about the farthest things from "role models", and almost every choice a society has made has been wrong wrong wrong. The whole people in power thing as role models really does frighten me, though. When you see small children, and you ask them what they want to be when they grow up or who they look up to, more often than not they'll say "the president". And this worries me because that idea of a role model instilled at such a young age may be tough to unshake. Or maybe it's something like the easter bunny and santa claus? all kids like him when they're young and whatever, but as they grow older they snap out of things? There's that "powerful love of mankind in terms of expectation", eh?

Re: For the misanthropes...
 

Thanks, Bendk, for that link.
Fascinated by the 'paragons of pessimism' and the 'magical thinking'. Can't help thinking this all relates to the 'Magic Fiction' thread on TLO.
des

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I love misanthropes.

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"Scratch a cynic and you'll find a disappointed idealist," as the old saying goes. I fit that bill... I'm incredibly romantic (err, Romantic) and idealistic, but I find that we just don't live up to our potential.

But, as Gandhi (whoa-ho!) said, we should each be the change we wish to see in the world. So, by allowing myself to be discouraged and put off, I'm just feeding the problem. The pragmatist in me says I'd just be shat upon if I were to live a saintly life, but I'm not exactly contributing anything by being meek and selfish, either... it's difficult to win.

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Gassy, where did that piece of interview come from? I too love the smell of gasoline...

I've turned into a misanthrope, yep. Feels so good to accept it after years of self-improvement efforts of one kind or another, even highly subtle ones. One of my main beefs is stupidity. I'm at the point, thank god, where I can cuss myself out, though. Overpopulation seems incredibly stoopid to me. And: "Let's make more cars, but...roads? well, no, we won't worry about more roads..." Of course Ii'd love each of those things to disappear. I also hate that people think we have this "right" to just go somewhere these days. People didn't used to go much of anywhere, esp. by planes, etc., things that ruin the air and water and peace just in the interest of progress. But there really seems to be no way out, and that's why things suck and will get suckier and this planet has had it. Yeah, the only hope is that some real mothuh of a genius or two will be born, or hopefully now alive, who will come up with the Solution to everything. AntiChrist anyone?

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I was arguing with somebody the other day that the majority of the world's problems could be directly or somehow linked to overpopulation. We could easily knock off 1 billion people, and it would definitely help. I'm somewhat a believer in eugenics? If you're not contributing something to society, why should you be allowed to live? Homeless people and vagrants? I don't know...at least control their breeding. I have visions of Mike Judge's Idiocracy coming to fruition. I have a job and I go to school. I care about people and the environment. It's not hard to do! (although it is becoming increasingly difficult).

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Swans, the excerpt is from an interview conducted by David Tibet with Thomas Ligotti which appeared in AKLO edited by Mark Valentine, Roger Dobson and R. B. Russell. I feel that I'm probably going back to my previous signature soon. The excerpt, though, should be preserved in a post of mine within the Robert Aickman thread.

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I was thinking about this exact subject a few weeks back. It was around the time that the new earth-like planet was discovered. This planet is reported to be at least twice the size of earth, full of water, and with a similar climate. Already people were predicting we'd be colonizing it... someday. However I began to wonder, does humanity deserve to spread any further into the cosmos? We certainly haven't done a very good job with the one home we have. In fact we've become very skilled at sh**ting in our own beds so-to-speak. When I think of humans spreading across the stars I begin to look at our race as a virus of sorts. Do we really want our viral symptoms of ignorance, pettiness, greed, and hatred to spread? I feel that as a species we have a LOT of growing up to do before we should even contemplate finding a new host.

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I'm an optimist: I think we'll die off (or, more likely, kill ourselves off) before we get the chance to populate outer space. Hell, we have to plan years or decades in advance just to send a heap of tin to another planet. We don't stand a chance!

Or, if we do find a way to sustain ourselves in outer space or on another planet, then I don't think we'll be exactly "human" after a while.

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How Agent Smith-y of you

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I am quite shaken and disturbed by the juxtaposition of the concepts of "Solution" and "eugenics" in two consecutive posts. Various pogroms throughout history have ultimately caused nothing but bigger and worse troubles...

Your Unrelenting Nonrevisionist,
Rover

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"I try to be cynical, but it's hard to keep up." Lilly Tomlin
This is a fascinating thread. I think the whole key to misanthropy is held in on of Des Lewis' posts, but he didn't go into it.
The play "The Misanthrope" is not about omeone who is really a misanthrope. It's the story of a man who pretends to be a misanthrope so that he can "cherche les femmes" on the sly. His duplicity is the dramatic mainspring of the play.
From observation I have come to believe that misanthropes of whatever degree are people who haven't caught on to the basic dishonesty of most social activities. In almost every social situation outright lies are told, important information is left out or distorted, buttons are being pushed and/or hidden agendas are at play. Now, some of our friends are honest, but these other factors are in play much of the time. Sometimes we're forced into it ourselves. Maybe we have to be nice to the boss or a co-worker where we would rather feed them ground glass. That's just one sample.
Misanthropes have never gotten over the fact that most folks aren't half as honest as they are. ("If I knew she was really like that I wouldn't have married her," he cried. That's why she didn't let you know what she was rweally like until you got married, I wanted to say.)
Being rational most misanthropes forget that most others use words as either tools or weapons to fulfil their needs and passions. The subtext is much more important than tha actual words for most human beings. Even the most rational have their quirks and can turn very emotional if the right buttons are pushed or some opportunity presents itself.
I know that I've certainly had my moments.
Until I get to know someone I listen to their actions much more than I listen to their words. What they do speaks much louder than what they say. Sooner or later everyone reveals their true selves. Sometimes they have a good self, but even then there may be one area where they weird out. (I'm a Federal Cop and I work with some people who think that Richard Nixon was innocent and that Ronald Reagan was the best president this country ever had! "Better than Lincoln! Better than Washington!" I just shake my head.)
I'm with Spotbowzerfido2 about euthanasia. Part of it is, considering my job, I'd be #1 on someone's list somewhere. (Definitely my ex-wife's list.) Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, we're all humans (and dogs) and we're all in the same boat. I know I shouldn't decide anything important like who should live and who should die. I would make lots of mistakes. If I make a mistake at work maybe a few more pounds of cocaine end up on the streets of Los Angeles. Who would even notice? But, making life and death decisions? Not me.
I think that misanthropes, and those who have such tendencies, need to learn to read the disconnect between what most people say and what they do. It is a sad wisdom, true, but it will cut down on a lot of anger that it appears to me that they are carrying around inside them.

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That's the story of my life, Mr D. Ever hanging never to drop.
I have held 'The Intentional Fallacy' in religious awe for most of my adult life. For me this is the essence of misanthropic disengagement. Even Moliere couldn't get past that barrier. Most interesting post, thanks.

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Yes, good post, Mr. D.

For my own part, as I've probably said elsewhere, I think the "scratch a cynic..." cliché holds true. Lies and pretenses offend my idealism, although, of course, I wouldn't be so offended if I didn't behave the same way as everyone else. (I sometimes consider disposing of my ideals, but it's difficult to do.) I think, for the "genuine" misanthrope, the hatred and distrust begin at home and are only mirrored in the masses.

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GSC, I for one had no thoughts of that kind of solution. Though I would be in favor of some sanctions on birfin' babies. I don't think we should use the old rhetoric of "He could have been the next Beethoven" or such crap.

Mr. D (is that the name? I can't view it now)...I liked your post this morning but it wore on me throughout the day. Without nailing it precisely or rereading, I'd just say I got the impression we misanthropists aren't being allowed to say "All these other people who're always subtexting and ####, they suck -- yeah, we accept it...and they suck!"

Anyway, I also feel that's not so much the big thing that makes one a misanthropist.

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Well, I don't consider myself a misanthrope as I am just a bit too much of a Buddhist by nature. But I really want to throw down - this is a GREAT thread.

We all have reactions to people or things or situations that can be considered emotional reactions. Something happens to us and we experience an emotional response. These emotional reactions stir up a lot of stuff in us and we naturally look to the person or thing that caused the reactions as an explanation of why we behaved the way we did. So when I'm on the freeway and someone cuts me off - I assume that the idiot on the road is the reason that I had the anger reaction.

BUT - what you need to remember is that, outside of you, everything is neutral -neither good, nor bad. Overpopulation, war, famine, that guy that cut me off, etc., etc. are completely NEUTRAL in terms of the world - neither good nor bad.

So if you are getting angry because of humanity, or the world, or whatever, you are committing the rather disempowering act of assigning good or bad to outside things. Overpopulation may be bad for you but it's good for Catholics! So overpopulation, by itself, is neither good nor bad, if it was one or the other then everyone would agree that it is either good or bad. The same can be said of driving, your irritating boss, and many other day to day stressors.

Taking complete ownership and responsibility for how you perceive the world is a challenging thing - to not blame others for the situations we find ourselves in is very challenging for us humans, as we have been trained for years to blame others for our problems. Your mom blamed your dad so why shouldn't you blame the world for your woes.

I love and embrace every power mad republican, atheist, christian, moslem, jew, palestinian, martian, green lizard, gray lizard, liberal, conservative, pinko, reactionary, terrorist in the world, because they are neither good nor bad, they just are. As soon as I realize this and take responsibility to my reaction to said stimuli, then I become the power, I become the one that chooses my reaction to things, I am the winner, because I take nothing personally.

Whew

alec...

Re: For the misanthropes...
 

but what about things like rape, murder and genocide?

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I'd close the borders tomorrow, I'd impose mandatory zero population growth for like 30 years, I'd mandate a meritocracy instead of this idiotic democracy.

Borders: As long as we're gonna be nationalistic, let's cop to that fact, and that we're just not as mature yet as we'd like to be, and let's get realistic.

Re: For the misanthropes...
 

Hey there unknown.

I acknowledge that my understanding of the world is in contradiction to a lot of normal and rational beliefs - so here goes.

Rape, murder and genocide are completely neutral by themselves. The only right or wrong associated with anything is created by us - by our thoughts, understandings - through the filter of our beliefs.

To use a tired examples - Hitler. Do you think that he thought that genocide was bad? He thought that he was doing exactly what he was supposed to be doing. So genocide, by itself, is neither good or bad. If it were absolute good or bad then everyone would agree on that. No matter what "absolute good" or "absolute bad" you can think of - chances are that some people think it's good and some don't.

I'm not advocating any atrocities, I'm merely putting them in perspective for myself. In my belief system I am not responsible for the atrocities in the world - that is simply the mass mind - the dream of the planet - which is mostly poison. I choose not to participate in the poisoning of our minds through assigning blame and judgement on people and things. I simply strive to give as much love, compassion and understanding to every single person I encounter that I possibly can. I exude exactly what I want to get back from the world and typically I get what I create. If I get a painful lesson then hopefully I can control my reaction.

Victor Frankel - while being operated on by Nazis in a death camp - realized that no matter how much they brutalized his body, the one thing the Nazis couldn't take from him was his reaction to what was happening. Your reactions to situations are pretty much the only thing you can control in those situations.

sorry for the ramble!

alec...

Re: For the misanthropes...
 

To take the above and go off on my own little tangent, I do think "perspective is everything." I suppose I am a moral relativist, insofar as I consider all actions (human or otherwise) to be ultimately neutral, as Alec describes. There's nothing wrong, of course, with carrying around a moral yardstick (we all do,) but I find it useful to remind myself that there is always a different perspective and that most of my reactions are based on personal taste, how I was brought up, etc. But, from a "cosmic" perspective or what have you, (which maybe isn't exactly a perspective as such, since it subsumes all possible perspectives,) everything is ever as it should be.

My misanthropic tendencies are usually knee-jerk reactions to things I find unsavory in my own nature, as reflected in others, to touch on what I said before. The less focused I am on my own perceived inadequacies (and they are only perceived, because I'm judging myself against concepts/ideals in my own head,) the easier I find it to be accepting, understanding, and appreciative of myself, others, and life in general.

I guess this all ties in somewhat with the notion of abandoning/transcending the ego to realize a higher, truer self (whenever I mention these ideas, I wish I were a lot wiser and more articulate than I am, but oh well.) I know a lot of people who claim the ego (or whatever you want to call it) is "evil," etc., but I think that's missing the point. The ego, the so-called source of evil and suffering to many people, is one of the most valuable learning tools we have, at least in terms of spiritual wisdom.

Since this is a measly message board post and I want to wrap it up, I'll submit a corny metaphor, that of extreme pressure turning lumps of coal into diamonds. The process of becoming a diamond might not be pleasant from the perspective of the coal. And I'll piggyback another corny metaphor on top of that and say maybe those lumps of coal can be identified with the diamonds in the first place, much as a seed might be identified with the plant it eventually becomes, etc.

OK, that's enough rambling for now... I haven't even smoked any weed recently! :rolleyes:

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Mr. SoilMe,

Nor did I when I read your post... It was what initially followed that made associations spark in my mind. I'd like to clarify a point. I am Spotbowserfido2. Please address your comments to my comments appropriately, i.e. to my attention. Thank you.

Rover

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Misanthropy is misspent energy. Me, I deal more in self-loathing. That way, at least I know my hate is always justified.

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Since I'm writing from a Third World country, misanthropy becomes part of everyday life.