Re: Bands I Loathe
 

When visiting my parents' with the purpose of writing a paper on Ligotti and the company as disease metaphor in corporate horror, I found myself in a situation more horrific than anything Ligotti could have thought out. I found out that I actually liked The Eagles very much. I should have seen it coming: Over the past five years, I have started LOVING CCR, ZZ Top, and such, but I had always thought I should come away free of The Eagles. But now, I seriously think "Hotel California" a brilliant song and album.

Re: Bands I Loathe
 

Look here, ya'll better quit dissen on Black Sabbath's "Mob Rules" and "Heaven & Hell" albums. Tie your punk asses up, make you wear 3-terabyte iPods filled only with ABBA's "Dancing Queen" and assorted songs from The B52s until smoke boils out the top of yer heads like that dude from "Latchkey's Lament". See if I don't <grumble, grouse...>

No, seriously, I can empathise with those who don't like these BS albums (wait a minute, that doesn't sound right. fuggit, you know what I mean.) because of their lyrics. Dio's melodramatic howls and growls only serve to intensify the high humor of his lyrics, granted, but the bass and drums are decent, and Iommi's guitar is superb; some of best heavy metal riffs and solos ever produced. The sophistication and polished style Iommi displays in H&H and MR far outstrip what he did previously, making his earlier work (which, although it has a certain nostalgic appeal, by and large does not otherwise particularly appeal to me except for sporadic spots here and there) seem crude and sophomoric by comparison. Can't speak for any album more recent than MR, haven't kept up. One more BS observation: Although I detest Dio's lyrics, just as I detest 99% of all song lyrics (Music allows for infinitely greater imaginative scope and cognitive interaction on the part of the listener when lyrics aren't continually telling you what thoughts you should be having while hearing the instrumental music. They are obnoxiously restrictive, like a kind of Mayan skull binding for the imagination. At least, that is how they are for me.), his vocal ability easily surpasses Ozzy's nasal whinings. Still, would have been more palatable if Dio had sung in a language other than English (the only one I know). Better yet, too bad they weren't left out entirely.

Regarding Led Zeppelin: Seems like in recent years it has become fashionable to try and tear down LZ, pigeonhole them as pretentious hacks because they stole material from other artists. Did LZ steal material? Yeah, they did. Upwards of ten songs, including some of their most famous (Stairway, Dazed and Confused, Babe I'm Gonna Leave You, et al) contain either lyrics or guitar that were clearly taken from other artists. LZ failed to credit the original artists in these cases and had the crass temerity to explicitly credit the songs to themselves. There can be no doubt LZ's image and respectability is marred by these digressions from honor and creative originality. Whatever monetary losses LZ has been, or will be, hit with resulting from lawsuits filed by artists who have been victims of LZ's plagarism are well deserved.

So that's it then, end of story. LZ can be safely dismissed as pretentious, plagarising hacks with no talent, right? Not by a long shot. At least not by anyone who strives for honesty in their musical appraisals and judgements.

First off, even in the songs containing the worst plagarism, i.e. where the ripped material is completely obvious and lasts for more than a few seconds, there is always also a substantial amount of original material invented solely by LZ - no song of LZ's is a 100% rip off from start to finish. Except for 2 songs that I know of, none of the stolen material is anywhere close percentagewise to the original material in any given song.

For example, the intro motif on acoustic guitar on "Stairway to Heaven" was stolen from the song "Spirit" by Taurus (contrary to what you might hear, it is not a note-for-note rip, but close enough). But what about the rest of the song? Is Page's electric guitar solo on STH stolen? No, it is 100% original. In fact, of all Page's heavy rock guitar solos; of which there were many, 15 songs at least, I'd guess; I've never heard of one being suspect - Page's heavier hard rock solos are 100% original. What about the rest of STH, aside from the intro motif rip and Page's original solo? That's right, it's all LZ. LZ's rips, except for a few songs (like "Dazed and Confused" and "Black Mountain Side". holy crow, they mined the hell out of those two!), were almost never note-for-note thefts to any great degree, they were brilliant covers that sounded way better to my ears than the originals. The real stinker of the matter was they rarely gave credit to their inspirational sources. Should the thefts be excused because they manifested in songs that were better than the originals? Not at all. The higher quality is relavant, however, in disproving the shallow opinion that LZ had no ingenuity. More proof of their inventiveness to follow below.

Actually, now that I think of it, all of LZ's uncredited covers are not better sounding than the originals. Mostly on their first album, they covered a bunch of blues classics by such legendary bluesmen as Willie Dixon and Howlin' Wolf. In these songs the thefts are largely in the area of lyrics. Page's guitar sound and composition is very different from the source blues guitar, though still clearly inspired in many instances by the blues masters. The sound is so different that they cannot be classified in the same musical category - one is classic blues, the other rock. If you like both of these types of music then it is noncupatory to try and compare songs from the two categories for relative quality because the sound and attitude is so different. Which leads to one of LZ's greatest acheivements: More than any other band, LZ laid the groundwork for the sound of modern hard rock, heavy metal, and their many offspring, with their use of distortion, hard rock/heavy metal riffs (most 100% original), and high energy solos (again, by far mostly original material).

Additionally, it is worth noting LZ's "Achilles Last Stand" (100% original) is widely acknowledged as the seminal progenitor of the long-form rock/metal ballad. Every hard rock and metal band (death metal, speed metal, heavy metal, etc.) owes a huge debt to LZ for their pioneering creativity in the field of hard rock. I'll end this endless LZ justificatory monologue by stating I can't stand LZ's lyrics; original or stolen, the music would have been much better without them.

Spotbowserfido2: Good to hear you enjoyed Reznor's voiceless work from the Ghosts album. The dark ambient soundtrack to the video game Quake 1 was also by him, little known outside the gaming community. Very highly recommended.

Waffles: Got around to giving The Velvet Underground a listen. I can see Lou Reed had talent, that he was an original from early on. No doubt VU has influenced a lot of bands. Unfortunately for me, VU's music relies more on lyrics than it does on instrumental virtuosity. Not my style. Thanks anyway for the recommendation. By the by, haven't noticed your presence in the arcade for a while now. Dude, you gotta drop by more often, put up some competition. It's getting as dead in there as Ligotti's faith in anything meaningful in this world <rim shot>. <Gasp... The sacriledge!> C'mon, I kid Ligotti! I know he's the best horror writer alive. Just wish he would get off the non-fiction kick and start writing more of that stellar fiction. Like my music views, that's just me though. Don't expect anyone else to buy into it ;)

Re: Bands I Loathe
 

I agree with you about lyrics vs instrumental virtuosity. Most of the bands I listen to, I listen for the players and not the singers (e.g. I love 1960s honky tonk because of virtuosic guitar playing and the pedal steels). Ever since the Off the Radar Metal thread came to life, I've been digging lots of black/death metal - mostly for the instrumental insanity (I can't believe 1349's drummer is not a drum machine).

Thanks for giving the Velvet Underground a shot. I like VU for their instrumentation - John Cale created some terrific atmospheres with his viola.

BTW, here's an old article on Lou Reed's undeserved status as a literary icon - enjoy

Birdbrained | TRG | Chicago Reader

I haven't had time to go on the game board - don't worry, I'll show up kick your @$$ at something.

Cheers!

Re: Bands I Loathe
 

I don't understand all of that but Black Sabbath are a band I loath. (And I once had the misfortune to hear them live.) I have Abba's "Dancing Queen" and a number of B-52's track on my ipod.

Re: Bands I Loathe
 

I've been a big fan of Led Zeppelin ever since I was in high school. But I'd rather listen to Abba than Black Sabbath any day.

Brian Eno has interesting things to say about Abba:

"In the 70s, no one would admit that they liked Abba. Now it's fine. It's so kitsch. Kitsch is an excuse to defend the fact that they feel a common emotion. If it is kitsch. you put a sort of frame around something – to suggest you are being ironic. Actually, you aren't. You are really enjoying it. I like Abba. I did then and I didn't admit it. The snobbery of the time wouldn't allow it. I did admit it when I heard 'Fernando'; I could not bear to keep the secret to myself anymore and also because I think there is a difference between Swedish sentimentality and LA sentimentality because the Swedish are so restrained emotionally. When they get sentimental it's rather sweet and charming. What we really got me with "Fernando" was what the lower singer was doing, I don't know her name. I spent months trying to learn that. It's so obscure what she's doing and very hard to sing. And then from being a sceptic I went over the top in the other direction. I really fell for them." (From this interview.)

Re: Bands I Loathe
 

waffles: Cool to hear you also primarily enjoy music for the instruments. Perhaps one day no voices will infect the airwaves, and the minds of all who hear will be aswarm with reveries of strange, individualistic, phantasmagoric imagining - as opposed to the mundane, herd-oriented, trite images common to most lyrics.

Haven't had the time for the 'ol arcade lately, eh? Glad you let me know that. Was beginning to think maybe I'd scared you away. Be looking forward to seeing what you can bring my friend. When you find the time, of course ;)

Odalisque: That was my lame attempt at using humor as a vehicle to facilitate defense of two Black Sabbath albums I like. The jab was intended for my friends Spotbowserfido2 and waffles, who had already mentioned their revulsion for post-4th-album BS, and whom I felt confident would not take umbrage at the disparaging references to ABBA and The B52s. It did not occur to me that I might be belittling bands favored by someone here at TLO, since those bands were so exceedingly cheerful, positive, and mainstream. Just goes to show my lack of intuition in fathoming the eclectic scope of tastes among TLO's members. My apologies, sir. Let me know if there is something you yet do not understand about my post, and have a great evening :)

Re: Bands I Loathe
 

On the subject of Black Sabbath:

Every so often, the world in general and the countries of the Pacific Ocean in particular are ravaged by the effects of that periodic weather system, the dreaded El Nino. Associated with floods, droughts, and other disaster-level weather events, El Nino can cause carnage and suffering to large numbers of people.

The redoubtable Henry Rollins has suggested that the name El Nino - Spanish for "the boy" - seems insufficient for an event of such devastation and carnage. He has suggested renaming it The First Four Black Sabbath Albums, and that does not sound like a bad idea to me.

I myself am not really a fan of post-Osbourne Sabbath, but those early recordings still resonate with delicious dread, anxiety, and bombastic power. "Symptom of the Universe" still gives me goosebumps whenever I hear it.

Re: Bands I Loathe
 

Oh, I see... :o

Re: Bands I Loathe
 

Not only do I enjoy some cheerful music, but Charles Penrose's classic "The Laughing Policeman" (1926) is amongst the 2,173 songs on my ipod. A recording artist growing more cheerful than "The Laughing Policeman" would probably die from the cheeriness overdose.

As to Black Sabbath... Around 1970, I was living in Lancaster. Every week the local university put on a band. Every week I'd go to see whoever they provided. One week, it was Deep Purple, and I didn't enjoy the gig at all. My dislike for the evening was more for the unpleasant pervading atmosphere than for the music, although the latter was certainly not enjoyable. Next week it was Black Sabbath, who were much worse. The unpleasant atmosphere of the previous (Deep Purple) performance spilt out into violence. I wasn't personally caught up in the mayhem, but left feeling thoroughly shaken, and stopped going to see the bands at the university.

These days, in spite of a few exceptions on my ipod (such as Charles Penrose) I generally prefer female artists, or bands with female members. Not all of these represent sweetness and light -- Bikini Kill, for example is amongst the bands on my ipod. My feelings here are, at least partially, religious. Ideally, I'm listening for women who -- in the act of performance -- become avatars of the goddess. She may be a gentle or a savage goddess, or a combination of the two. And, returning to the B-52's, I think that Kate Pierson could sometimes become such an avatar.

And, on the subject of bands I loath, it's probably fair to say that I dislike the whole of testosterone-driven rock. It seems to me that the world is dying from testosterone poisoning.

Re: Bands I Loathe
 

Too many Boards of Canada mentions. Their last album was pants, admittedly, but they were the first electronic band I was ever heavily into, and Geogaddi is still one of my favourite albums.

And before Jhonn Balance died, Coil were going to do a collaboration with them due to "intense mutual appreciation", so they must have been doing something right.

Eh, I can't think of any, other than just the usuals. And Guns n' Roses.