THE NIGHTMARE NETWORK - "Enough of this error..."

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Re: "Enough of this error..."

how interesting that now we're talking about gnosticism; yesterday evening i rediscovered in a pile of books an edition about the influence of gnosticism on modern philosophy and aesthetics , it is also online (if you can read German)

Dithyrambiker des Untergangs:

Dithyrambiker des Untergangs ... - Google Buchsuche

Re: "Enough of this error..."

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Originally Posted by Odalisque (Post 10074)

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Originally Posted by Ilsa (Post 10069)

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Originally Posted by Odalisque (Post 10068)

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Originally Posted by Ilsa (Post 10054)

It's difficult to have an objective report of what gnosticism really was because we have only a few documents about them and most of all are written from christians who portray them as evil and corrupted. I read once of this gnostic sect that lived underground eating their own children and drinking menstrual blood....well...I guess that did not correspond to the reality of facts.

It can't help the gnostics' reputation that the fatuous Crowley described himself as a gnostic. I used to regard myself as a gnostic - but these days my beliefs are Kemetic.

One of O.T.O. rituals, which is public and open to people who are not a member yet, is in fact the celebration of Liber XV, the gnostic mass...but i don't think it has a lot to do with the ancient gnostic sects!

No, I shouldn't think that it does have a lot to do with ancient gnostic sects. I believe that neo-Platonism weighed heavily with the ancient gnostics. A bit more dull than drinking mentrual blood (as mentioned in a previous post) . :( Not that I expect that the OTO do that, either. (They, too, in their own way, are surely more dull.) Still, if people are going to drink blood at all, drinking menstrual blood is about the most harmless way of doing it.

and the most disgusting one! Anyway, it is very far from my aim to say that gnostic sects did weird rituals ... What I find more interesting are the common topoi one can find:

-duality: the existence of a good and an evil demiurge (in both cases detached from the real God) ...this duality reminds me a lot of pre-islamic Iran (Zoroastrism and Manicheism)...
-the earth seen as a place of sorrow
-the body rejected and scorn (also through sexual abstinence or its opposite)
-the search for another reign (which is in fact very platonic)

I think the concepts of gnosticism have been very present also in literature and philosophy.

p.s.: Thanks Cyril for the book advice...it looks very very very interesting and i didn't know about its existence! :eek:

Re: "Enough of this error..."

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Originally Posted by Ilsa (Post 10076)

You have now reached a set of ideas I find repellant, and which contrast strongly with my own Kemetic outlook. I would counter with:

Duality... yes - this is important, but in a more supportive way. Ma'at (translatable as order, good, justice, etc.) is in itself to do with balance. There is also a balance to be struck between ma'at and isfet (chaos). Opposites can support one another. There are balances within balances.
The earth seen as a place in which we can take pleasure. (See the joy in life evident in Egyptian tomb painting - not so much "even in joy we are amid sorrow" as "even in sorrow we are amid joy".)
The body accepted and celebrated. Sex as the agent of divine creation. (The acceptance and celebration of the body was surely the motive behind the ancient practice of mummification.)
Searching for ma'at within this reign. Being in the here and now.

I have a feeling that, in all of this, I am against the general current of this board.:confused:

Re: "Enough of this error..."

Menstrual blood you say?
Not my cup of tea, sorry

Blood for the rituals should be from an innocent source, therefore blood of animals, children and virgins is the most common choice. Your own blood is also very powerful and quite fun to get. :)

On topic, there are many interesting apocryphal texts (like from earlier mentioned Nag Hammadi library) just waiting for us to study.
Oddly, there seems to be some kind of connection between all of them.
Hidden truth in hidden lies

Re: "Enough of this error..."

...I didn't say I support a gnostic view...i'm just a simple pessimistic, hyper rational, nihilistic chick! ;) interested in what happens around...

Anyway, now i'm curious about this Kermetic point of view...I must admit i don't know a lot about it!

About Nag Hammadi codes I found this interesting website. A couple of years ago in Italy the "Gospel of Judas" -part of the Nag Hammadi discoveries - has been published.

The Nag Hammadi Library

Re: "Enough of this error..."

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Originally Posted by Ilsa (Post 10088)

No, I didn't think you did support that view. I just wanted to take the opportunity to state an opposite viewpoint.

Kemetic refers to the religion of ancient Egypt, which is the only religion that makes any sense to me. (From Kemet, the ancient Egyptian word for Egypt -- hence alchemy or al chemy meaning of Egypt.)

If you're interested, I wrote at some length on the subject in Golden Goddess and Bloody Times which I posted to my literary blog -- there's a link to it in my signature.

Re: "Enough of this error..."

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Originally Posted by Odalisque (Post 10086)

I have a feeling that, in all of this, I am against the general current of this board.:confused:

I don't think you are.
But whether you are or not "against the general current of this board", your religious views and sentiments are very relevant to this board, I feel.

Re: "Enough of this error..."

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Originally Posted by Nemonymous (Post 10092)

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Originally Posted by Odalisque (Post 10086)

I have a feeling that, in all of this, I am against the general current of this board.:confused:

I don't think you are.
But whether you are or not "against the general current of this board", your religious views and sentiments are very relevant to this board, I feel.

Thank you... and I think that they probably are.

Re: "Enough of this error..."

I see a balance between Pessimism and Optimism, strengthening each other by symbiosis (I am P, you are perhaps O, Odalisque) ... not that one can adequately summarise such a power of polarity by these shorthand words of Pessimism and Optimism. I personally have no religion. But I do have faith in ideas that have a power all of their own once we set them in motion.

Re: "Enough of this error..."

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Originally Posted by Nemonymous (Post 10094)

I personally have no religion. But I do have faith in ideas that have a power all of their own once we set them in motion.

I agree with you, in fact i believe that human ideas created god ...