Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Please, do keep the updates coming. I believe that all of the writers who are here have an interest in Ligotti (this forum IS very free of that new plague called viral marketing), and, consequently, it is very possible that their work may be appreciated by the members here.

In, I apologise, slightly on topic news*, two new titles are available for preorder:
Steve Duffy: The Moment of Panic
http://www.exocccidente.com/momentofpanic.html

Claude Seignolle: The Black Cupboard
http://www.exocccidente.com/blackcupboard.html

Seignolle sports a marvellous moustache (though that word seems to do Seignolle's very little justice) in the picture. Had I not already preordered it, I might have been tempted to because of the 'stache.


* just kidding - I think all the derailments are very interesting. Keep them coming as well.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

I'm broadly in agreement with that sentiment. I can't be alone in shivering with discomfort when I see a new contemporary author flit about from discussion group to discussion group reluctantly informing everyone that he's really pleased with his latest story / book / collection because he thinks it might just be the best thing he's ever written. Regardless of the quality of their prose, some people contribute little to discussion groups beyond promoting themselves and the books of their nearest and dearest. Equally annoying are the sig taglines which are usually longer their posts, branding them 'masters' or geniuses' of weird fiction, presumably because of services rendered. Well, sorry chaps, but for me the masters of the weird tale are the Aickmans, Wakefields, James and Ligotties of this world, not some newly arrived new Labour yuppy-types. And if any of the new wave of contemporary post-Aickman writers qualify as princes (tomorrow's masters perhaps), then the mantle must rest with the likes of Reggie Oliver, Mark Samuels and Joel Lane, who are not only a cut above most of the others, but don't spend half their lives traipsing around the internet marketing themselves.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's perfectly reasonable for a contemporary author to discuss his or her work as and when the occasion arises, but the way that some people behave is to my mind cynical and tiresome. It's one thing to urge people to vote for you in an ironic manner on the discussion group you frequent most if a relevant discussion ever arises, but quite another to openly canvas for votes on message boards that you normally can't be bothered to post in.

I've been corresponding with Dan at Ex Occ Press recently (I'm particularly interested in his Claude Seignolle book), and casually mentioned that he will almost certainly receive nominations next year given the large number of high quality books that he is publishing in 2009. He replied to the effect that not only is he disinterested in awards, but that he greatly hopes he doesn't win one, because of the offence he might cause by refusing to accept it.

It really would be quite refreshing for the genre were every writer and publisher to snub the awards bodies, akin to a peaceful revolution. Overnight those busybody officials and activists who delight in wielding power and winning awards would lose all of their power to the book-buying public who, presumably, would make decisions about what is best based upon reviews, the quality of the prose and the overall value of the book. It would also eliminate all of this 'silly season' politicking in the run up to the awards, to say nothing of forcing the various genre bodies to spend less time on ultimately pointless awards, and more on promoting the genre as a whole.

Holding writers' and publishers' workshops at annual conventions would be a far more sensible use of time than dedicating god-knows how many hours to flawed awards ceremonies. Besides, everyone would get something positive from a workshop, whereas awards ceremonies invariably result in much teeth-gnashing and negativity.

JK

[NB. If my post wins the 'Post Of The Month' award I will of course be perfectly content to accept the accolade before delivering a long and rambling speech about it being quite possibly the best post I have ever written, before driving off in an all-expenses paid Aston Martin DB5, holding my glittering prize aloft in the air as I shout "So long, suckers!" at the runners-up.]

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Damn! I've just seen all this AFTER posting my "vote for Ligotti" as 2010 WHC Grandmaster plea elsewhere at TLO.

:confused:

Mark S.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Since the upkeep of TLO is a continual drain on my personal resources, both relative to time as well as finances, I am inclined to weigh in that I have never been put off by members promoting their work. Quite the opposite, in fact, as I have benefited greatly from the awareness and ultimate exposure of many authors, either through self-promotion or the more frequent tip regarding the work of a third party. In fact, I sometimes wish I could do more to increase the awareness of members who are authors or artists, whether published or not. I have nothing but encouragement for folk that wish to promote their work here, especially when it strikes a chord within the community.

Ironically, the one post element that I hold in great disdain is when members exact personal attacks on other members. I am generally opposed to censorship and policing these forums, but I must issue a request at this time for everyone to respect your fellow members. My intent here is not to restrict interaction, but from a personal perspective I find the recent surge of animosity amongst members as a greater threat of censorship. Not everyone can dare to speak freely amidst such an atmosphere. Some enjoy a lively argument, but others like myself loathe confrontation. In the end, such folly proves to be a great distraction from what could be otherwise engaging discussions.

In closing, it is equally unsettling to read these venomous posts from members who otherwise offer valued contributions both herein and without. In fact, it makes posting this response all the more awkward. I do ask that members respect one another, first and foremost.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Alberto, my friend, I must admit you confound me. I can't follow your train of thought from post to post. Nevertheless, I thank you for being interested in my book.

I don't yet know how many copies I'll be receiving, and after the work of shipping out all the copies of my first book myself, I'm not looking forward to doing so again for this one. Nonetheless, if you're willing to pay the extra freight involved I'm sure we can work something out to get you and your family a signed edition...

Hang on. Alberto, are you in Toronto? My suggestion is buy the book as you normally would. I'll no doubt be doing a signing or attending an event of some sort in the coming months that you can bring the volume to. This will save you the extra postage, and allow you the opportunity to read the work (even if you don't actually find the time to do so).

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Having just read Dr Bantham's post above, I suppose I ought to refrain from my comment about Mr Mark Samuels and his giant "Elton John" spectacles.

Damn it all...

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Julian – I think those writers who try too hard to promote their work in Internet forums are displaying an insecurity that's unnecessary in some cases. In addition, a lot of us have been trained in the workplace to use social networking forums for promotional activity. What becomes habitual at work starts to become the norm outside it.

While I'm flattered by your placing of me in a notional front rank of the genre, I'm far too aware of how many living writers I admire and have been influenced by to be comfortable with such a promotion. To my mind, any list of the greatest living writers of weird fiction who are still producing important work would have to include Thomas Ligotti, but also M. John Harrison, Dennis Etchison, Ramsey Campbell and Lisa Tuttle, and perhaps also Nicholas Royle, Conrad Williams and Tony Richards. (That's obviously not an exclusive list.) None of whom, in truth, make any particular effort to promote their work online.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Mr Simon whatever-your-name-is

I don't come here to be abused. I am perfectly capable of self-abuse. Hence the need for those eyeglasses.

:cool:

Mark S.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Regarding what Joel said:

Don't forget Quentin S. Crisp and Terry Lamsley!

Mark S.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Goood points, Mark. Indeed, anyone looking for a successor to Aickman would be well advised to try Lamsley.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

P.S. The 'Goood' wasn't an attempt to croon – I need a new keyboard. Sorry.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

I have no problem at all with TLO members "pimping" their books. In fact, TLO is the #1 place I get news about weird fiction. All small press writers could use a boost in sales these days, so what does it hurt? It's kind of nice getting said news directly from the source --right from the horse's mouth, so-to-speak. Additionally, I consider many on TLO to be friends, of a sort; therefore, I'm happy to read about their artistic endeavors in whatever form they take.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

I agree without hesitation. But I also agree that you, Joel, have earned your right to stand beside him. In fact, I know more people that site your work as an influence than his, and I think that truly says something about what you do.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

A story by Simon that can be read online: "pinholes in black muslim". 18 pages.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

I kind of feel like even people who like literature have picked up, from somewhere, a desire to punish writers. I've noticed that if writers show any desire for any kind of recognition or, dare I say, happiness, in their lives, they are often shot down in flames, as if that's a mortal sin, usually by people who nonetheless want the same things (or even currently enjoy the same things) they would like to deny the writers. It seems like they actually require writers to starve to death whilst whipping themselves in a garret somewhere. This attitude is often even touted as an admiration of literature, rather than the inveterate hatred of the writer that it appears to be.

I haven't noticed any pimping going on here, anyway. Maybe I haven't been looking in the right places, or maybe I'm missing the point.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Um... I thank you, Alberto, for calling attention to this, but the title is "Pinholes in Black MUSLIN". Your version is too horrible to contemplate. :eek:

Quentin: I don't think it's as much "punishment" as it is that some view forums such as this as almost holy places, shrines to art, and thy must not be spoiled with the crassness of commerce.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

By 'spectacles', do you refer to glasses, or his rumoured penchant for dressing-up like a pantomime dame at informal BFS gatherings and harranguing the bar staff with requests for ludicrously-named and non-existent cocktails whilst snorting cocaine from the shaven heads of mute dwarves through a gilded tube of hollow ivory?

JK

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Surely we could work this up into a decent comedy skit using this a basis?

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Have you been checking up on me?

:drunk:

Mark S.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

As Joel has quite rightly pointed out to me elsewhere, it has become second nature for some people to use online networking both socially and in the workplace, and this might explain why some people appear to be enthusiastically self-promoting themselves, when their intention might be just to keep friends and acquaintances informed of significant events in their life. I've mulled over this and have to concede it is a reasonable argument. I accept that there are two perspectives which might overlap and thus cause the infamous 'grey area' and am therefore happy to give the parties concerned the benefit of the doubt.

I therefore apologise to the two individuals concerned and have edited my post so as to remove mention of them by name.

JK

PS. This isn't me going soft in old age, nor have I been urged to apologise by the good Dr B. It's just that I would rather cut some slack to self-promoters and / or networkers by way of helping to preserve the positive ambience and integrity of TLO.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

No need to - the details of your secret double-life have been scrawled on every pub wall within a mile radius of Charing Cross.

But on a serious front, I found myself dipping into THE WHITE HANDS again last night. [To be honest, I reached out for A J Alan but it was gloomy and I pulled out the wrong book......!] That said, I'd forgotten how very good the book is.

I'm not going to go into any further detail because I would much prefer not to be on social terms with a writer who produces work I admire. I much prefer my authors dead; it is far easier to discuss them because they aren't around to disagree or contradict with you.

Can't you fake your own death and come back as, oh, I don't know, Basil Blenkinsop of Tunbridge Wells? Then you could objectively criticise your own work and I could praise this or take picky fussy issue with that, safe in the knowledge that you wouldn't puff up or be offended.

"It is so difficult to make an easy job of killing people with whom one is not on social terms" is an urbane quote from Kind Hearts & Coronets (one of my very favourite films; I've been quietly savouring its deliciously subtle wit for many years now). In this situation it could be tweaked into "It is so difficult to praise or condemn the work of those whom one cannot but be on social terms with".

The genre is so small that you can't help bumping into friends or enemies - we all share the same house - and that makes criticism (whether positive or negative) terribly difficult.

JK

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

I think I probably was wading into something of which I only saw some part, so I'm not sure how relevant my comments were. I was really just relating some personal observations to the implication that people shouldn't plug their work here.

If I'm totally honest, I think TLO is pretty much no#2 on my list of places to plug my work, with my own blog being no#1. I know I'm not going to be able to do so in the Times Literary Supplement or London Review of Books right now, anyway.

I think the whole subject of self-promotion for writers and artists is... difficult and complex, and I won't get into it here because it doesn't really seem necessary, and it'll be a bit off-topic etc. Suffice it to say, I'd love not to have to do any self-promotion, because I'm very bad at it, but after a small press publisher has invested so much in a print run of one's work, it would seem ungrateful, even, to keep the fact that they have done so a strict secret.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

I just came back home from work and found my copy of "Putting the Pieces in Place" waiting. This is the first book from Ex Occidente which I have a chance to see and it is absolutely gorgeous. I'm really glad I have managed to reserve some cash and order one of the last few remaining copies on abebooks. Who would have thought it will go OOP so soon - well, at least I wasn't one of those who were taking this into account as all this time I was fooling myself by thinking I will buy it on my birthday (which will be a month from now.)

It certainly won't be my last order from this prestigious publisher.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

I've bought a couple Ex Occidente books. The quality is incredible, as is the lineup of authors they have served up so far. I'm eagerly looking at some of their next titles as well for purchase.

Part of me hopes good word of mouth will encourage the specialty shops to start and/or expand orders from Ex Occidente. I'm a little nervous ordering direct from them, though, based on the blurbs around here and elsewhere about some people getting bashed up books from an envelope. I was lucky enough to get a couple of their books in store from a local joint specializing in horror, sci-fi, and so forth. Ex Occidente needs to use boxes if they're going to be primarily a mail order publisher. Tartarus seems to do things pretty well as far as shipping goes...

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

I've spoken at length with Dan at Ex Occidente about shipping and I'm happy to report he seems to have found a solution. My copy of "The Terrible Changes" arrived safe and sound about a week ago, and I expect no further issues going forward.

I'd cross "worrying about EO shipping" off your list of concerns now.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Excellent news, and good timing. I was just about to order a few EO books from a secondary seller (at slightly higher prices) due to shipping fears. It seems I can order direct from the source once again. Thanks for looking into this, Simon.

By the way, Realms of Fantasy Books still has a few EO titles that are sold out at the publisher. If you order any three titles you get free shipping.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

I see Mr Oliver has been busy embracing his heritage:

Ex Occidente Press - Virtue in Danger

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Wow. Only 230 copies printed. I'm sure these will go quick, as Oliver seems to be gaining a bit of a cult following. My order is in!

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Yes his previous books seem fabulously expensive. I just hope Madder Mysteries holds out till the 3rd or 4th so I can make a grab for one.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

By the way, I came across this picture of Reggie Oliver....


http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1007/...1edcd1.jpg?v=0

He looks like a cross between Christopher Lee and Dennis Hopper! I know it's silly, but I get a kick out of it when weird fiction/horror writers actually look the part.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

He looks very different from the frontispiece in Madder Mysteries:

http://www.exocccidente.com/images/l...mysteries4.gif

I think I prefer the looking-the-part-picture :)

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

I thought he played a superb role in Dracula Wears Blue Velvet. No less magisterial was his performance in Rasputin the Easy Rider.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

There's a bookdealer based in Suffolk who owns both bookshops in Aldeburgh who attended the launch of 'The Complete Symphonies Of Adolf Hitler'. He bought copies of this and 'The Dreams Of Cardinal Vittorini' at a discounted price and has been sitting on them until they went out of print. Now he's listing copies at £400 and £450 respectively on ABE, which is more than RO or I made combined from a whole evening's bookselling (and we had overheads and the cost of production to deduct).

The seller is nothing to do with RO nor myself. Personally, I find the prices being asked for these books staggering. I can quite understand them changing hands for between £100 and £200 - this is what desirable Ashtree / Tartarus / GSP books are worth - but £450 does seem very cynical and opportunistic.

Having said that, I find it equally staggering what some people are asking for Ashtree's 'Pleasant Terrors'. We have seen the emergence of a new breed of bookdealer: those who snap up small press items and sit on them for a couple of years before increasing the price tenfold. They can make as much in a couple of book sales as the publisher makes for the entire project, yet they do none of the work.

Then there are the publishers who with-hold or cobble-together unknown signed proof copies and or limited signed editions, and flog them on Ebay (having recently promised to try and avoid personalising issues, I shall refrain from naming the publisher formerly based in Seattle, quietly notorious for not paying contributors while his wife peddles such commoditieson Ebay for exhorbitant sums). Several writers / contributors have been surprised (or alarmed) to see private correspondence 'loosely laid in' to such items by way of justifying the high prices.

I would comment further on the issue, but I have to list the following item on Ebay:

"Oliver, Reggie: The Dreams Of Cardinal Vittorini & Other Stories. UK 1st edn, limited 350 copies. One of only one copy which features a tipped-in postcard from the author discussing his recent holiday; a dried-out tea-bag filched from his rubbish bin (Earl Grey); a pair of Oxford socks bearing the initials "R.O." (unwashed); a torn contract between the author and publisher, signed by both parties, anotated thus by Oliver ("We would make more money doing a paper-round!"); and a signed publicity photograph dated November 1979 ("Mr Oliver is available for pantomimes, murder-mystery weekends and French trouser-farce" printed to rear). Original laminated covers, horribly chipped; pages transposed in random order (publisher error); endpaper stamp bearing the legend "File Copy: If found please return to British Library"; numerous cup ring stains to front cover. The vignettes within have been daubed with fake black teeth, moustaches etc etc. Starting price £995.00. Buy It Now for £1,500."

JK

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Well, the market will pay what the market will pay. Leaving aside the issue of whether it's okay for people to buy books as investments (which seems no different whether it's a reader or seller) if someone is willing to pay £400 for a book then that's what it's worth, and if no one is... well, the book can remain on the shelf with that price tag until the end of time. That's how the market works.

That extra copy of Teatro Grottesco you bought, Chris. Are you going to resell it in a few years for the price you paid for it? I don't think it's much different than what that reseller did.

Again, let's leave your publisher argument out of it. Valid or not, your disagreements with others will give the conversation at the very least the appearance of being tainted.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

I agree with you.

Not only that. The same happens with rare books. There is a book by an Indian writer whose first book of stories is being sold for $ 300-400. Of course, this amount is too excessive for my pocket, after all, a book is just printed paper. But, sometimes, one can find unexpected surprises. I bought that book from a bookseller, two months ago, for just $ 28 (plus shipping cost). Either the person didn't know or he was a madman.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Simon, 'the market' is about as real an entity as Great Cthulhu or the Easter Bunny. It's a term used to reify (and valorise) a set of economic practices and standards – thereby making capitalism appear normal and inevitable. What past generations attributed to 'the will of God' or to 'human nature', we attribute to 'the market'. The economic meltdown the world is currently going through demonstrates, finally and beyond doubt, the fallacy of any belief that 'the market' has some kind of ontological status and built-in coherence or integrity. It's a euphemism for the greed and irresponsibility of capitalists, who continue to get away with it simply because society has not yet stopped them.

How this relates to booksellers is another issue. Given that booksellers are an endangered species whose numbers are dwindling exponentially, with their extinction a matter of weeks or months rather than years, perhaps they can be forgiven for desperate measures. Or perhaps not. To quote the Mississippi Sheikhs: I can't be good no more, honey, because the world gone wrong.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Perhaps. I just don't see the difference between a bookseller marking a book up and crossing his fingers and a buyer who pays $20 for a book he knows is worth more. Are they both acting inappropriately? Is neither of them?

No one has to buy something that overpriced. Nothing in this world has an intrinsic value: we ascribe all value ourselves. If Reggie's first book is so important to someone that he is willing to hand over two weeks' wages to get a copy, then it's a fair price. If not, then he doesn't buy the book and if no one else does, the book will either languish or be sold for less. It's the buyers who dictate what a book ultimately sells for, or if it sells at all.

That's how I see it at any rate.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Suppose you buy books at reasonable prices, knowing that they will be worth more in the future, and planning to sell off your collection incrementally to subsidise your retirement. That's what many book collectors do if they live that long. And who can blame them?

Between that and shameless profiteering, there is probably a spectrum of more or less acceptable buying and selling that has to be judged on a case by case basis.

My overall judgement is: Hmmm.

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

Questions for those who are "published writers":

When someone buys a book written by you, does it feel good? Or you share a nihilistic thought of "who cares who buys my book (as long as it is sold)?" I mean beyond any scant profit you can make of it? I'm taking into account that no one on the list is Stephen King, making millions with just one book. Having the possibility that many more don't have, to publish a book and say something, how do you feel when someone buys a copy of your "own" book just to make money without even reading a pssage, a line, a single word of it? For you, published writers, is it better to be read? to be published even more books? your work to be bought as investment (see my copy, wow, what a price!)? Why do you write? Why should I buy your work, and not someone else's that in the long run pays more? If I had $ 2,000 dollars to spend on myself, on my own whims, I would buy a Lovecraft's letter, that certainly is going to be always much more in the long run than any of Reggie Oliver's books? Why should I buy something? Does someome care nowadays? Or are we so immersed in this sick society that just money counts, and not what it is said?

Re: Ex Occidente Press
 

I have actually thought about some of this before. Having had book launches and so on for books of mine, I'm pretty sure that, at times, some people have made a purchase because I'm not a well-known writer, and they want to be polite/charitable, and I have been left feeling, "Please do not buy these books if you have no intention of reading them. There are only 200/300 copies in print. If you have no intention of reading it, all you are doing, by buying it, and hiding it away in your airing cupboard, is making sure that that copy is defunct, out of action, and no one will ever read it."

Buying books as an investment - and not to read - is something that is so strange to me that I haven't really contemplated it much, but, again, I'd prefer to be read. It would perhaps be undiplomatic in many ways to give concrete examples of how little money a writer in the independent press makes, but believe me, you'd be a fool if you were in it for the money.