Re: Negativity defines me
 

Besides the wonderful video featuring Schopenhauer's views concerning noise, I'd like to add the following:

"The Sacred and the Human" by Roger Scruton

http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/a...ls.php?id=9708

"Father Barron on the New Atheists"


"'Earth 2100': the Final Century of Civilization?"

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Ear...7697237&page=1

They offer a view that leads to a rich combination of hope and negativity, which is very much what takes place for most people who live in developing countries.

Re: Negativity defines me
 

Am I mistaken or does that Father Barron video employ some very odd (and contradictory) arguments? To paraphrase:

If we desire something, it must exist.
Since we desire God, God must exist.
That being so, the atheist's desire for no God is a delusion.

But, it would make as much sense to argue:

If we desire something, it must exist.
Since atheists desire a Godless universe, there must be a Godless universe.
That being so, Father Barron's desire for there to be a God is a delusion.

Of course, the major premise If we desire something, it must exist is nonsense.

:confused:

Re: Negativity defines me
 

My mother, someone with not much education according to modern standards, used to tell me that the world was going to end soon. She based her viewpoint in her Christian faith. Well, she died, and the world keeps rolling. Now, I hear the same nonsense again. The world ends by 2100...? What else...? Perhaps repent and pray the Lord...? The world is not going to end anytime soon, unless by cosmic cataclysm (comets, et cetera). In this case, it could be anytime, not exactly by 2100. Even if there is an accidental stupidity, someone with nukes so silly to use them, it is not going to be the end. Someone survives at the end, or another species can supersede us.

"Today's atheist polemics ignore the main insight of the anthropology of religion—that religion is not primarily about God, but about the human need for the sacred. As René Girard argues, religion is not the cause of violence, but the solution to it."
by Roger Scruton?????????????????????????????????

What else...???????? Religion is about God, because there is simply no "atheist religion". There is no "new atheists", or I don't feel myself different at all from atheists from past centuries. God is no solution, will never be a solution, because GOD DOES NOT EXIST. There is no God. Period. Where is God, may I know? Is God inside or outside our Universe? 1. Inside, then God is also part of the Universe and maybe created by it. 2. Outside, there is no "outside". In consequence, there is no God. If you seek salvation, redemption, hope, through God, you are lost. Better spit upon the name of God, whatever it is, and live your life the best way you can.

Re: Negativity defines me
 

I'm not so sure of it. I was "on the road" for some months, about five years ago... passing the nights in the railway stations, brooding about the opportunity to throw me under a train, or take one of them without ticket.

Re: Negativity defines me
 

I didn't get that part. What I got was that because life is absurd then there can't be a God. In which case, he was comparing atheists like Sartre and Camus with the feel-good message given by atheists today.

The unusual part takes place when Father Barron sees Sartre and Camus in light of the despair depicted in the OT, as if the norm of religious belief is not certainty. This can be seen in startling contrast to the feel-good atheist and Christian who are, ironically, both on the same side.

Re: Negativity defines me
 

It's a good one. You should check it out.

Re: Negativity defines me
 

Perhaps by "world" she meant her own. If that is so, then the nonsense can be seen in terms of an opposing view.

It was not my intention to depict the ABC documentary in a religious light: rather, to show that religion is based on the fact that humanity is helpless. We would like to imagine that things will be fine in the long run, but we are facing at least six problems that are creating what the documentary coined as a "perfect storm". Only two of those problems are mentioned. Here are, for me, the six:

1. a collapse of global capitalism, prompted by increasing money supply (much of which involves numbers in bank accounts), to fuel increasing production which involves increasing resource consumption, to meet increasing per capita demand and population;

2. peak oil, and also peak water and peak minerals;

3. global warming (or global dimming);

4. plant and animal die-offs (e.g., 75 to 90 percent drops in fish harvests, up to 90 percent of deep sea fishing areas now dead zones, deforestation and damage to coral reefs, etc.);

5. epidemics and possibly a pandemic (given virus vector increases due to global warming and human congestion and migration, mutation, overuse of various antibiotics, etc.); and

6. conflict (the twentieth century being one of the bloodiest in human history, twentyfold increase in small arms production worldwide, militarization in China, Russia, and other countries, invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, etc., future resource wars).

I don't think prayer or technology (or even rationalism) will save us from these long-term (and for some, immediate) problems. In which case, it is not only belief in God that is not a solution, but the very technology (primarily the use of oil which led to mass industry which in turn led to abundant food and medicine which in turn led ironically to a population boom and ecological damage) and even reason (at least based on free market capitalism and the "pursuit of happiness") that will soon do us in.

The best example I can think of is the U.S., which is one of the most advanced societies in the world in terms of a middle class lifestyle. It has 360 million people (around 5 percent of the world's population) but must consume around 20 million barrels of oil daily (around 25 percent of world production). In order for the current global population to have a similar middle class lifestyle, we'll need two to five earths, which we don't have. Unfortunately, increasing numbers of people worldwide (and I am one of them) would like to live a similar lifestyle, so it is assured that whatever demand destruction takes place in industrialized countries will be offset by increasing car and appliance sales in India, China, and in other countries. And since oil production likely peaked back in 2005, with the possibility that production in Cantarell might be declining a year from now followed by Ghawar, then a resource crunch may follow soon.

In which case, the "best way" one can live his own life during the next few years may involve learning to plant his own food, localization, and learning to survive in a de-industrialized world. Wouldn't it be ironic that in such a world we might see the return of religion?

This brings us to Scruton, whose argument implies that human beings are both rational and irrational. And because he lives in a world that I described above, then it is inevitable for religion to exist. In a way, we might say that what built new atheism is technology based on oil, but if oil and many other requirements (including credit) start declining....

Re: Negativity defines me
 

Could you please define "helpless" for me? What help do you expect? Perhaps from God...? I always have this irreverent idea (having seen religion from inside) that religion is based on a few people trying to brainwash millions. Imagine that Christianity is over, What are bishops, cardinals, fathers, et cetera, and mainly the Pope, going to do to make a living? Christianity is business. Even Mother Teresa said that she had doubts on the existence of God. Does anyone think that the Pope believes in God...?

A dream. It is the only economic system that still survives. What else would you suggest? Living in small communities like Mennonites? It could work in small communities, but not for 7 billion people. The other system, communism, I thought it was over. They had the same problem, excessive greed.

There is still oil for a hundred or so years. We are going to find more in the next decades, and beyond that, there is always solar power, nuclear power, the wind, coal, et cetera. And when all is exhausted, we may be found already a way to travel through the stars. If not, well, who knows.

Do you suggest to buy an extra bottle of water every day, just in case? I understand that water may be a problem soon, but wait, let's see. Don't panic.

Yes, and not many governments do something to finish with it. However, we survived the Ice Age, then we may survive the Hot Age as well.

Worse than AIDS...? They used to say that everyone was going to die from it. We may find a cure within 10 years.

Reason will prevail. As it always does.

Technology "is" maybe part of the solution. Without technology we wouldn't be talking over the internet. Too many Terminator-like films make people think that technology is our enemy, and it is in fact the opposite. How far advanced we are now compared to the Middle Ages?

Religion mainly exist because people feel lonely. People want to belong to a group where they can feel they are worth something. Someone else, on another thread, already showed that religion is directly linked to poverty, lack of education, crime, et cetera.

-----

But you don't answer my humble question, Where is God, is God inside or outside our Universe? God doesn't exist, therefore any solution that involves God is condemned to perish.

Re: Negativity defines me
 

My life is a hasty journey into darkness, Mr. Hetman, and for me the sun is closer to setting than it is to high noon, so some of these questions may be more relevant to me than to you. The outer form of Catholicism, which is the form of Christianity that I know, has nothing to do with religion. It is merely one of many bureaucracies in the world, and, like most other bureaucracies, the original purpose has gotten lost in the maze of bureaucrats.Christianity believes that God created this universe and everything in it for a purpose. We are part of the plan but we rebel against our Maker. Because of this rebellion God sent His only Son to become man, to die a horrible death and to rise from the dead to conquer death for us, since our rebellion had caused us to be lost. This is salvation.The religion you have been describing has little to do with these beliefs. If you believe the above statements then you are a Christian. If you don't, then you aren't. I mean nothing insulting but I am not sure which religion you don't believe in.The God of Christianity is so far beyond us that your questions about God being in or out of the universe are really without meaning. In other religions such as Gosticism the gods are more down to earth and understandable, but they are also much less powerful.I have no idea what I face when night finally falls and my life is over but I realize that the questions are much bigger than I can understand. Maybe death brings more understanding.As far as the questios that Mr. paeng so astutedly stated:we don't really have to worry about them. Either we will solve them or Nature will solve them for us, to our detriment. They is nothing new. I remember reading about a Roman stadium built about 2,000 years ago that, because of kickbacks and shoddy materials, it collapsed during a day of games. There wasn't even an earthquake as in China recently. And which Charles Dickens novel has the businessman ruined when his pyramid scheme came to light? I can't think of the title at the moment. These things have been going on for a long time.

Above the dark hills
In my eyes as the day ends,
The sun starts to set.

Re: Negativity defines me
 

I think that the average Christian is against paying expensive lawyers with money that comes from donations to defend bishops accused of sexual abuse. But, what could an average Christian do about this scandal? Basically, nothing more than complain and be upset.

http://www.ligotti.net/picture.php?a...pictureid=1485
Tell me, is this fellow Bernard Law a Christian or not? The answer is that, yes, he is. Don't you see him in the photograph in a Christian Church probably telling others to repent and come to the Lord?

This is the Christianity I was talking about.

Nietzsche said: "In reality there has been only one Christian, and he died on the Cross." I even disagree with him. Yes, I do. I believe that Jesus never existed. There is absolutely no proof that he did.

I could write pages and pages and pages and pages and pages and more pages with detailed examples of the so called Christianity that is gonna make you throw up from revulsion.

But I'm gonna waste my time according to Dunniger.

For those who believe, no explanation is necessary;
for those who do not believe, no explanation will suffice.

Joseph Dunninger