THE NIGHTMARE NETWORK - Writer Nic Pizzolatto on Thomas Ligotti and the Weird Secrets of ‘True Detective’

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Re: Writer Nic Pizzolatto on Thomas Ligotti and the Weird Secrets of ‘True Detective’

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Originally Posted by Malone (Post 100053)

I was one of the few who expressed suspicion of Pizzolatto when he was 'outed' re Ligotti, and claimed he was fully intending to credit the latter at the end of the series. His dismissive comments re weird fiction and so on do make feel a tad vindicated;)

Indeed, I remember your comments.

Also the messages on post 13 seem more significant now: THE NIGHTMARE NETWORK - View Single Post - Writer Nic Pizzolatto on Thomas Ligotti and the Weird Secrets of ‘True Detective’

Re: Writer Nic Pizzolatto on Thomas Ligotti and the Weird Secrets of ‘True Detective’

A hearty welcome back, Mark!

Re: Writer Nic Pizzolatto on Thomas Ligotti and the Weird Secrets of ‘True Detective’

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Originally Posted by Druidic (Post 100048)

Yeah, it's from the New York Post (my favorite rag, sue me) but it's not complaining about anti-Christian bias or anything you might imagine; it's just one critic unhappy because too much was left unexplained.
Because that last episode got the adrenaline going I was pretty forgiving of such things, but I can see how others might not be. I don't always like everything wrapped up nice and neatly.
But the interesting thing is the author is an extremely conservative columnist and he doesn't seem to be looking at the drama through political or religious goggles. It's encouraging if that's what the power of a good story can do...
Give me the Post, my coffee, a hot buttered muffin, my cigarettes and some painkillers and I might make it through one more day...
Or not.

We all look like suckers again as fizzles out | New York Post

I don't mind that the loose ends were not wrapped up, but that last five minutes...

Well, a friend of mine's final assessment of the show is so much more eloquent than anything I have to write on the matter (and I agree with him completely):

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I just don't see how [Cohle] can say "the light's winning," and we can believe him. And yet, the ending felt totally unironic. I can understand why that lack of irony might be refreshing, but from a storytelling and character point of view, it completely undermined all that came before it, particularly the baked-in ironies. We know Cohle is a good man, deep down, despite what he says. His actions speak for themselves. He has a code, which is something nihilists don't have. We know he's deluding himself up to a point.

But we also know, from what we see in the show, is that his worldview -- at least in the fictional universe we've watched for 8 hours -- is largely validated by what's going on. This is a world where a voodoo rape and murder cult can escape justice at even the highest levels of law enforcement. And yet, the show wants us to think that it was really all about One Man's Quest to Overcome His Pessimism.

Now the problem isn't the old Pessimism versus Optimism debate (which Yog knows has been argued to death already here and elsewhere). The problem is that the optimistic ending isn't earned in any way or supported by the narrative--it comes from out of the blue and undermines all eight hours of storytelling that came before and transforms the show itself into one, huge red herring.

In short, TRUE DETECTIVE--despite its gorgeously acted, directed, and scored trappings--turned out to be a sham.

IMO.

Re: Writer Nic Pizzolatto on Thomas Ligotti and the Weird Secrets of ‘True Detective’

Ooh. And ANOTHER great point that ANOTHER friend of mine made:

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Speaking of voodoo. I think the portrayal of voodoo in TD is worse than stereotypical. It is not developed at all as if no research went into it. It is basically just equated with Satanism. But, even with my somewhat limited knowledge of voodoo, I know a voodoo priest who is a college professor, I'm aware that voodoo has nothing to do with child rape and murder. Nobody's really talking about that, I guess because voodoo has been a source of ridicule and bogyemanning by Hollywood forever, but you would think that someone as well read as Pizzalotti would have done a little research other than the Blair Witch stick tchotchkes. Why even toss voodoo in there? It was basically just a throwaway line. Voodoo also has ZERO to do with the King in Yellow.

and the response (from friend #1):

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Why even bother co-opting the Yellow King "mythos"? Especially when you're going to crap on Chambers and weird fiction in general, not to mention facepalm when viewers actually, you know, go looking for stuff about the Yellow King? Just concoct something new! It's HBO, for chrissakes. People would have gotten into it without the Yellow King imagery and ideas. They would have gotten into something entirely new, and Pizz could have created a great and terrifying new mythos. Again, a missed opportunity.

Re: Writer Nic Pizzolatto on Thomas Ligotti and the Weird Secrets of ‘True Detective’

Oh, and for those folks who resist the idea that the ending of TD was one of deliverance from evil -- I give you Nic Pizzolatto himself:

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"For me as a storyteller, I want to follow the characters and the story through what they organically demand. And it would have been the easiest thing in the world to kill one or both of these guys," Pizzolatto told HitFix. "I even had an idea where something more mysterious happened to them, where they vanished into the unknown and Gilbough and Papania had to clean up the mess and nobody knows what happens to them. Or it could have gone full blown supernatural. But I think both of those things would have been easy, and they would have denied the sort of realist questions the show had been asking all along. To retreat to the supernatural, or to take the easy dramatic route of killing a character in order to achieve an emotional response from the audience, I thought would have been a disservice to the story. What was more interesting to me is that both these men are left in a place of deliverance, a place where even Cohle might be able to acknowledge the possibility of grace in the world."

Never mind that the Near Death Experience Cohle had with a void full o' Eternal Love was the most supernatural ending Nic P could've possibly written.

That stated, Cohle's resolution above sounds so much better than it actually turned out to be. I would have liked to have seen the ending he thinks he wrote.

Re: Writer Nic Pizzolatto on Thomas Ligotti and the Weird Secrets of ‘True Detective’

I think its fair to say that, in this particular instance, the writer's own interpretation of his work weakens the narrative instead of illuminating it. I don't think NP himself knew what the show was about in the end, or at least he did not agree with what the fans wanted the show to be.
For example, NP wasted so much potential by not incorporating Marty's daughters into the narrative. Some stuff I read before the final episode with Maggie's father and her kids just blew my mind.

So my main question right now is:
How does a writer feel when half the internet is full of theories and interpretation that are better than his own final episode and interpretation?

Perhaps we will find out in the second season.

Re: Writer Nic Pizzolatto on Thomas Ligotti and the Weird Secrets of ‘True Detective’

The second part of The Call of Cthulhu, where the police trek through a nightmarish swamp to hunt down a death cult killing around the stones on a small 'island', seems to have been a strong influence on TD.

Pizzolatto's remarks on Weird Fiction still bother me more than any other single thing. At best they were ungracious. At worst...well, no need to go there.

Re: Writer Nic Pizzolatto on Thomas Ligotti and the Weird Secrets of ‘True Detective’

Well, there are a lot of negative feelings everywhere about the series now (seen some real nastiness on Facebook) and I can honestly say I was not entirely satisfied with it all. But it was entertaining and certainly better than 90% of the dreck out there.

As for Mr. Pizzolatto, he is not particularly impressive as a writer. His BS approach to the weird is rather irritating, but he is in the end a commercial and corporate animal.

In my case, it was TLO that inspired me to watch the series.....had not heard about it till it was mentioned on the forum.

It was all your fault! ;)

Re: Writer Nic Pizzolatto on Thomas Ligotti and the Weird Secrets of ‘True Detective’

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I don't mean what follows as an insult. It isn't meant to be ironic or snide. I simply believe it.

Why not create something new?
The short answer? Because they just couldn't think of anything as good.

It's not easy to create a mythology like Lovecraft or Chambers did. Not at all.

Re: Writer Nic Pizzolatto on Thomas Ligotti and the Weird Secrets of ‘True Detective’

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Originally Posted by Druidic (Post 100072)

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That's very true. I personally thought using the King in Yellow allusions were a stroke of genius. In the end, the execution (writing-wise) left something to be desired, but the climax was undeniably thrilling (if cliche).